Unlimited revisions

[bryanmurphy888]

Explain why a buyer on Fiverr has unlimited revisions despite setting up gigs and custom offers to include a certain amount of revisions. I have a buyer who is on revision #7. Nothing will satisfy them. Out of over 4800 orders on Fiverr, never have I had this problem. It leaves me no choice but to cancel the order through CS and be out of the money.

[donnovan86]

1 hour ago, bryanmurphy888 said:

Explain why a buyer on Fiverr has unlimited revisions despite setting up gigs and custom offers to include a certain amount of revisions. I have a buyer who is on revision #7. Nothing will satisfy them. Out of over 4800 orders on Fiverr, never have I had this problem. It leaves me no choice but to cancel the order through CS and be out of the money.

Well you can show the number of revisions you offer, and you can tell the customer as well. However, Fiverr is not going to enforce a buyer to accept work they are not satisfied with. They can't do that, so they encourage the seller and buyer to find a middleground. There will always be stuff like this, I encountered some people like that myself. However, I never went more than 3-4 revisions, and at that point you know if you need to cancel or not.

Keep this in mind though, if you cancel the order, he can leave a review, unless he is a first time buyer. But if he's not, he can still review you for the order even if you give him his money back.

[nickj2013]

I offer up to three or four revisions with each order. If for some reason a client needs more, and exceeds the threshold. Then you could offer new revisions with a price tag attached. Maybe $10 bucks or so. Depending on the work required to fix the delivery up to their standards. 

Edited November 14, 2023 by nickj2013

[proconsultn2035]

My aim is to ensure you're satisfied. So we go till the end except the buyer decides to stop. Normally, if it exceeds 3 revisions, I will suggest we get on zoom. Because at that point, there's some miscommunication. 

[newsmike]

Unlimited revisions is the ultimate indicator that you are desperate, and unskilled.  You realize that someone can literally make you revise their $5 order every day until one of you dies, right? I'm temped to buy some gigs that offer unlimited revisions and start a blog called "100,0000 revisions" to prove my point.  

Don't be desperate, don't offer unlimited revisions.  Sell revisions. 

 

Edited November 16, 2023 by newsmike

[lenasemenkova]

I offer 2 free revisions + 3 additional ones for $15/a round. 

When the buyer starts pushing it, I’ll do the 3rd one (if it’s something reasonable) and bring it up. “Hey, I went a bit beyond the scope but please note that I’ll be charging for every next round. You can check out my gig terms here.”

Nothing makes people leave you alone faster than realizing that 1) they got a bit more than they paid for already, and 2) there will be extra charges after this point. Some buyers are just unaware that they are being a bit extra and it helps to inform them. 

PS If the buyer is being difficult just for the sake of it and you don’t feel like continuously dealing with it, cancellation’s the only way, unfortunately. 1 case out of 4800 is a great stat either way.

[fastcopywriter]

It's because Fiverr favors buyers over sellers. 

If a gig results in too many revisions, maybe you should delete it and do something else.

Delete problem gigs- they are not worth the aggravation, bad reviews, chargebacks, etc. 
  

[newsmike]

5 hours ago, fastcopywriter said:

It's because Fiverr favors buyers over sellers.  

That is completely untrue. The problem stems from sellers who either foolishly offer unlimited revisions, or are unable or unwilling to charge for revisions that fall outside the scope of what was purchased, out of some sort of fear.  

Edited November 17, 2023 by newsmike

[fastcopywriter]

15 hours ago, newsmike said:

That is completely untrue. The problem stems from sellers who either foolishly offer unlimited revisions, or are unable or unwilling to charge for revisions that fall outside the scope of what was purchased, out of some sort of fear. 

Just because your clients are wonderful and accept your terms, doesn't mean we all get clients like that. Anyone who has ever contacted CS knows they will tell you to work with your buyer or they will close the order and you get nothing. 

Also, the software doesn't work. If your gig offers one revision, then it should be impossible to request a second revision. 

[newsmike]

2 hours ago, fastcopywriter said:

Anyone who has ever contacted CS knows they will tell you to work with your buyer or they will close the order and you get nothing. 

What's wrong with working it out with your buyer?  That just requires communication skills as a business professional.

 

2 hours ago, fastcopywriter said:

Also, the software doesn't work. If your gig offers one revision, then it should be impossible to request a second revision. 

What if someone needs additional revisions beyond what was included?  Should they not be able to request them and get quoted a price to purchase them in order to get what they need for the project's completion?  This always amazes me. You guys who cry about this seem to somehow hallucinate and see the word "FREE" in the "Request Revisions" button. Why is it impossible to say, "Sure thing, that will cost $50?

Again, this simply requires communication skills as a business professional. 

 

Edited November 17, 2023 by newsmike

[fastcopywriter]

On 11/17/2023 at 6:28 PM, newsmike said:

That just requires communication skills as a business professional.

You think everyone is professional? Have you ever worked in customer service? Have you ever dealt with a Karen? 

We have too many customers who think they're Kings. It's their way or the highway, even if what they want is impossible to deliver. 

"I want a four-letter brand name like Nike, real words only, .com only, under $20" 

That's impossible! Domain speculators already bought those domains. So what do you do when that customer orders your gig? 

 

 

On 11/17/2023 at 6:28 PM, newsmike said:

Why is it impossible to say, "Sure thing, that will cost $50?

It's not impossible, but the customer might get angry and demand a refund. 

I once had an angry customer because I lowered my gig's prices while I had an active order. People are crazy. 

[newsmike]

14 hours ago, fastcopywriter said:

You think everyone is professional? Have you ever worked in customer service? Have you ever dealt with a Karen? 

We have too many customers who think they're Kings. It's their way or the highway, even if what they want is impossible to deliver. 

No, I was referring to the seller, upon whom is required to be a professional. Of course there are Karens, and grifters and cheaters everywhere.  For example, Karen goes in a restaurant, orders a big steak and bottle of wine, then says, "I don't like the way the waitress treated me", and attempts to leave without paying.  Of course, you don't stand for it.

Part of being a professional seller is knowing how to deal with the jerks. 

14 hours ago, fastcopywriter said:

"I want a four-letter brand name like Nike, real words only, .com only, under $20" 

That's impossible! Domain speculators already bought those domains. So what do you do when that customer orders your gig? 

Wouldn't simply switching on "Request to Order" fix this?  

 

[catwriter]

2 hours ago, newsmike said:

Wouldn't simply switching on "Request to Order" fix this?  

If I remember correctly, Simon is no longer in the program.

[fastcopywriter]

9 hours ago, newsmike said:

Karen goes in a restaurant, orders a big steak and bottle of wine, then says, "I don't like the way the waitress treated me", and attempts to leave without paying.  Of course, you don't stand for it.

On Fiverr, CS will blame the seller and will force cancel the order. This is why I only want gigs that don't attract troublemakers. 

 

 

6 hours ago, catwriter said:

If I remember correctly, Simon is no longer in the program.

What program is that? Seller Plus? I was on SP for a while, but it didn't help me much.

Promoted Gigs has helped me immensely. Right now, I have $170 in sales with $7.91 spent. I can see which promoted gigs have conversions, which ones they don't, and draw insights from it. 

[catwriter]

17 hours ago, fastcopywriter said:

What program is that? Seller Plus? I was on SP for a while, but it didn't help me much.

Yes, Seller Plus. In Seller Plus Premium, you get the "Request to Order" feature that allows you to prevent direct orders; buyers have to contact you first and then you send them a custom offer (or not, if they want a four-letter brand name like Nike, real words only, .com only, under $20).

Edited November 20, 2023 by catwriter
typo

[fastcopywriter]

19 hours ago, catwriter said:

allows you to prevent direct orders;

Direct orders aren't the problem, the problem is when a client doesn't like the work I did, that usually happens with brand names. With my other gigs, I rarely have any problems. That's why I'm sticking with good gigs and deleting bad ones. Same reason I stopped doing LinkedIn summaries years ago- clients don't want a mere summary of their resume, they want creative writing.   

[catwriter]

7 hours ago, fastcopywriter said:

Direct orders aren't the problem, the problem is when a client doesn't like the work I did, that usually happens with brand names.

I see. So, in the Nike example, the buyer placed the order, gave you normal-looking instructions, you delivered, and then they told you they didn't like your work because it wasn't a four letter real word with .com domain available for less than $20?

Yeah, request to order feature can't help in a case like that one.

[gxurma]

so, how shall we deal with this?

The system itself allows buyers to make endless revisions. Even if in the gig i only allowed 1 revision.

they can and do endlessly push on the revision button. if they stay within the time, they can endlessly continue with this.

[newsmike]

5 hours ago, gxurma said:

so, how shall we deal with this?

The system itself allows buyers to make endless revisions. Even if in the gig i only allowed 1 revision.

they can and do endlessly push on the revision button. if they stay within the time, they can endlessly continue with this.

Very simple. You give them what is included in the gig for free, then you charge them extra for each additional revision.  Very simple.  Fiverr does not do anything but allow you to tell people how much you charge for revisions not included in the order. Very simple. You have to have an adult, business conversation with your buyer.  Very simple.  

[rawque_gulia]

25 minutes ago, newsmike said:

Fiverr does not do anything but allow you to tell people

We get your point Mike and you explained it very well. But there's one point to note that you are selling in a sub-category where most people come from professional backgrounds and not like us where a 12 year old kid approaches us for a logo design for his YouTube channel.

Also, your price point falls on the upper segment and this is also one of the reasons why your buyers are mostly professionals who order from you. But this is not the case with everyone and all these things are good in chat, but when it comes to practical situation, buyers can go ahead and cancel the order with the help of CS (without even informing the seller in advance). Sellers directly receive a notification that the order has been canceled by customer support.

It is always easier to explain things to professional buyers than to the arrogant and spoiled 12 year old who eventually becomes your buyer. I always try to filter buyers based on their communication skills and attitude in inbox but still, some buyers are managed to place orders on my gig.

Edited December 26, 2023 by rawque_gulia

[newsmike]

19 minutes ago, rawque_gulia said:

It is always easier to explain things to professional buyers than to the arrogant and spoiled 12 year old who eventually becomes your buyer.

What if you were to price services above where an arrogant 12 year old, just fooling around could afford.  That would be the point of a professional freelance site, no? 

[catwriter]

7 hours ago, rawque_gulia said:

But there's one point to note that you are selling in a sub-category where most people come from professional backgrounds and not like us where a 12 year old kid approaches us for a logo design for his YouTube channel.

But he isn't in some special sub-category. There are many cheap voice overs on Fiverr, and they do attract problem buyers. Mike just chooses to charge high enough prices that no 12 year old could afford to hire him. What's preventing you from doing the same? I understand that you're using the $5 package to attract buyers, but such a cheap package is likely to attract trouble, as well.

[rawque_gulia]

18 hours ago, catwriter said:

What's preventing you from doing the same?

So, from your perspective, those offering lower prices (due to limited skills, choice, or other reasons) do not deserve to sell here? ----And if they sell, they deserve to get abused by buyers? I believed that Fiverr welcomes everyone, which is why they allow gigs starting at $5. Is this not the case? If someone is selling at a low price, should FIverr just ditch them and leave them hanging? Isn't it the responsibility of the platform to create an ecosystem where no one is abused, or are you just going to say 'hey raise your prices'? lmao!

Here's why Fiver is completely wrong (admit it or not):

1. When a seller contacts Customer Support for help, they are asked to resolve issues directly with the buyer. CS always avoids involving themselves (which is honestly a good thing).---- But when buyers contact CS, the orders are canceled without hearing the seller's side (and even without warning or informing them in advance). So, sellers are always "forced" to make revisions otherwise the buyer may cancel the order (directly without even communicating with the seller).

2. The button says "Request Revision", but do you even understand the fine line between "request" and "imposing"? Currently, buyers are allowed to "impose" revisions on sellers rather than "requesting" them. When buyers ask for extra revisions, there should at least be a warning if they've exceeded the limit, and like order cancellations and quote extension requests---- revision request should require mutual acceptance. The button says "request," but it doesn't seem like a request based on how it works.

- Or if Fiverr feels that mutual acceptance will create problems (e.g. sellers always canceling requests), then at least they can show a popup message informing buyers that the limit of free revisions has exceeded. Is it too hard for developers to do this?

[catwriter]

3 hours ago, rawque_gulia said:

So, from your perspective, those offering lower prices (due to limited skills, choice, or other reasons) do not deserve to sell here?

When and where did I say that? I merely asked why you don't increase your prices.

3 hours ago, rawque_gulia said:

If someone is selling at a low price, should FIverr just ditch them and leave them hanging?

Not ditch them. Fiverr is encouraging sellers to raise their prices (depending on what you're selling, the minimum allowed price might not even be $5).

3 hours ago, rawque_gulia said:

Isn't it the responsibility of the platform to create an ecosystem where no one is abused

I'm all for world peace and for governments doing their jobs and enabling all the citizens of their countries to live good lives, but that's not how the world works. With millions of users, many of them seeking to scam the other side (whether they're buyers or sellers), expecting the platform to guarantee there will be no abuse is idealistic.

I mean, just like you expect a foreign platform to provide you with a healthy work environment, you could expect your government to ensure that there are well-paid jobs for everyone so that nobody has to work on foreign platforms or go hungry... But I'm sure you know exactly how realistic that expectation would be (even though it would make more sense to expect something from your own government than from a foreign platform).

3 hours ago, rawque_gulia said:

are you just going to say 'hey raise your prices'?

I'm going to say that it's a solution that has worked for certain sellers, and that's why they're recommending it to others. Nobody says that Fiverr is perfect; people simply try out different things within an imperfect system, and then share what has worked for them.

3 hours ago, rawque_gulia said:

The button says "request," but it doesn't seem like a request based on how it works.

 

Fiverr's wording is often bad, yes. Like that dispute thing, when there's no actual dispute. And yes, just like sellers get notified how many revisions the buyer has left, buyers should get notified how many revisions they have left, and after they spend all of those, the button should change to "request a paid revision" or something like that. Like Mike keeps suggesting, but of course Fiverr doesn't listen.

3 hours ago, rawque_gulia said:

But when buyers contact CS, the orders are canceled without hearing the seller's side

Someone recently wrote that, whenever they asked CS to cancel an order (as a buyer), they were required to provide the proof that the work was not done properly. Not perfect, I know. But if Fiverr was to make their employees manually check each and every case when a buyer requests a refund, it would cost the platform far more than it makes if there's no refund (especially when it comes to low cost orders).

3 hours ago, rawque_gulia said:

So, sellers are always "forced" to make revisions otherwise the buyer may cancel the order (directly without even communicating with the seller).

There are always other options. Nobody is chained up and forced to do anything. Yes, there are consequences for using other options, some of them actually good (like a buyer agreeing to pay extra for additional revisions), some of them bad, but that goes for life in general.