An Open Letter To Success Managers

[donnovan86]

3 hours ago, visualstudios said:

at least they know exactly how things work, and how to succeed, and have proven it.

Even more so if they receive access to information unavailable to them right now.

[terrygrantvo]

My guess is that a small fraction of the buyers willing to leave a public review would also leave a private review. (and that group in total is but a fraction of the total buyers you'll work with)

Which means that even one less than 100% glowing private review has the ability to tank your business for indefinite periods of time, which is so asinine that it would be comical if it weren't also such a serious problem.

Add to that the fact that the way the private review system is designed (vague surveys, 1-10 scoring, outsized weight given to them, hounding the buyer multiple times, etc) slants it in favor of negative experiences, and... well - here we are.

It's honestly hard to see how anyone in charge ever thought this was truly the best way to handle this, which kind of makes you think.

 

But seriously guys... even if SMs were here in the forums all the time... participating in conversations, answering questions, etc. - what do we really expect them to say? What insights do we think they're holding back from us? Surely they don't think this makes any sense either, but they can't say that because unlike us - they actually work for Fiverr.

 

I want transparency, too. I want accountability. I want a fair review system. I want to not feel like I'm lighting $80 on fire every month (between Seller Plus and Promoted Gigs), but yelling at our SMs doesn't appear to be moving the needle.

 

Trust me - I've been doing it off and on for like, a year now. 🙂

[danno1950]

On 4/9/2023 at 1:41 PM, danno1950 said:

A cancellation, for example, even though our stats on the front end are not affected, remains in the database and affects impressions. 

I just had this happen to me. I had a cancellation at the end of February, because a buyer submitted a fairly large order for something I didn't offer. This is the situation where CS says that once they "adjust" the Order Completion Rate back to 100%, that no longer impacts my impressions. This morning another buyer submitted a small order outside the scope of my gig. It was from a buyer with 3 previous orders, which I believe counts as a "New Buyer" in the system. (Yes, I quickly turned Request To Order back on - I had been experimenting in case using that feature might be impacting my impressions.)

It dropped my OCR to 86%, which on the face of it makes no sense - I've never had a single order drop my rate that much. But if the system was still internally counting that previous cancellation against me, then I believe things now make sense. Even though we have been assured that once the OCR for a cancellation has been manually adjusted on the Dashboard, it no longer affects my impressions, that cancellation does "remain in the database and affects impressions."

Edited April 10, 2023 by danno1950

[danno1950]

9 hours ago, melanielm said:

The mysterious, multi-faceted slump needs to be addressed somehow. Fiverr depends on a solution as much as we do, I think.

I agree - and if Fiverr loses revenue from the slump, it will be the best chance of getting the source addressed and resolved.

[newsmike]

36 minutes ago, danno1950 said:

if Fiverr loses revenue from the slump, it will be the best chance of getting the source addressed and resolved.

They probably are not. While we are sitting here sidelined because of what was most likely a mistake that flagged us with a strike in their SQL database, there are still plenty of sellers on page 1, who are getting impressions and sales. So Fiverr has no real incentive to help us because they are still getting 20%, just not from us. 

Edited April 11, 2023 by newsmike

[newsmike]

7 hours ago, terrygrantvo said:

I want a fair review system

Don't think you'll see it.  We got an official email stating that we had lousy private reviews, but only an unofficial admission that they were sent by mistake, and only after we all had to ask individually for that. No formal email ever came stating that they were fixing our strike in the SQL database because they are not. 

[mandyzines]

Interestingly, I see an increase in activity on freelance  sites that are niche-specific. :)

[newsmike]

1 minute ago, mandyzines said:

Interestingly, I see an increase in activity on freelance  sites that are niche-specific. 🙂

Any you'd care to mention? Many here have been looking for options. 

[nickj2013]

Interesting thread. I am however put off to learn ChatGPT can be used for gig descriptions (WTF?), and the advice to boost your sales from SM's is to 'create new gigs.' Having a talent means having a ceiling. If I'm good at something, I can only offer it in so many different facets. Encouraging people to create new gigs to earn money, just compounds the problem of people offering to perform services they 'actually cannot...' perform. Or can perform on a barely average level that's not even worth the titular 'five dollars,' or 'Fiverr.'

[danno1950]

1 hour ago, newsmike said:

They probably are not. While we are sitting here sidelined because of what was most likely a mistake that flagged us with a strike in their SQL database, there are still plenty of sellers on page 1, who are getting impressions and sales. So Fiverr has no real incentive to help us because they are still getting 20%, just not from us. 

Ouch - that's not encouraging. It does make sense, though, so they can just motor on without having to admit they screwed up the algorithm, and we're in the penalty box.

[danno1950]

56 minutes ago, newsmike said:

58 minutes ago, mandyzines said:

Interestingly, I see an increase in activity on freelance  sites that are niche-specific. 🙂

Any you'd care to mention? Many here have been looking for options. 

Yes, I would also be interested in hearing about those sites.

[leannelrivers]

4 hours ago, danno1950 said:

Yes, I would also be interested in hearing about those sites.

Snap.

 

8 hours ago, danno1950 said:

that cancellation does "remain in the database and affects impressions."

I've been wondering about this. My SM cancelled an order 3ish weeks ago because the buyer left it incomplete and then just vanished for a month. No surface drop in my stats, but it is marked as a cancellation. 

 

13 hours ago, terrygrantvo said:

I want a fair review system. I want to not feel like I'm lighting $80 on fire every month (between Seller Plus and Promoted Gigs)

Would be great to see the review system... reviewed.

 

6 hours ago, newsmike said:

SQL database, there are still plenty of sellers on page 1, who are getting impressions and sales.

The last question I got from my SM about this was if I'd turned on OOO when I went on holiday because that can affect orders. But no, I extended my delivery time per SM advice and spent the week with my loved ones dealing with spam on Fiverr, like a normal person does on holiday. It's not cutting it anymore. 

[smashradio]

While I haven't noticed a drop personally, I've spoken to multiple successful sellers who have. I think the issue has more to do with the fact that most sellers this seems to affect are higher priced, top-rated, and pro sellers offering premium services at a time when businesses are desperately trying to cut costs.

Marketing budgets are sliced in half. Content budgets go down the drain, and with it, voice-overs, animations, graphic design, and content writing niches suffer while being replaced by cheaper sellers or even AI. 

Even so, I find it equally frustrating that the lack of transparency from Fiverr is causing so much annoyance for many of the top people on Fiverr.

Whether or not I'm right in my assessment of the cause for this drop, I think Fiverr must remember that we also need to cut costs, especially when our revenue drops.

If Seller Plus consists of vague, generic mumbo jumbo we get for free from Support or the Fiverr help pages, many top sellers might find a way to save 348 bucks a year. Where I live, that's food for a month. 

[leannelrivers]

11 minutes ago, smashradio said:

If Seller Plus consists of vague, generic mumbo jumbo we get for free from Support or the Fiverr help pages, many top sellers might find a way to save 348 bucks a year. Where I live, that's food for a month. 

I've already gone down to the lower level. Still $19 a month for some the features that I want to keep for now as this plays out, but otherwise I think my SM might be out of ideas. 

[newsmike]

31 minutes ago, smashradio said:

Marketing budgets are sliced in half. Content budgets go down the drain, and with it, voice-overs, animations, graphic design, and content writing niches suffer while being replaced by cheaper sellers or even AI. 

That would explain it if the impressions were still high but sales had dropped.  The problem here is that Fiverr is just not exposing our gigs, so no impressions. 

[donnovan86]

1 hour ago, smashradio said:

I think the issue has more to do with the fact that most sellers this seems to affect are higher priced, top-rated, and pro sellers offering premium services at a time when businesses are desperately trying to cut costs.

I am not in those categories, yet I am still seeing a massive drop to the point where I have no orders or just a couple. And mostly I am a volume based seller, so this really hurts... That being said, I was told by my SM that first time buyers damaged my account, so yeah.. in my case I am extremely unhappy with this shift towards first time buyers, because a random dude with no knowledge of how the platform works or what they really want can really damage your account.. 

[terrygrantvo]

1 hour ago, smashradio said:

... many top sellers might find a way to save 348 bucks a year. Where I live, that's food for a month. 

Pfft, for me that's food for three months... 

... but I did just eat mac 'n' cheese straight out of the pot with a wooden spoon, so...

[vickiespencer]

2 hours ago, smashradio said:

many top sellers might find a way to save 348 bucks a year. Where I live, that's food for a month. 

Not for my hubby and me. The prices at grocery stores continue to escalate due to the economy, and the grocery shelves have many bare spots. Only my hubby and I are at home, and we spend more on food now than when our three sons lived with us, and teenagers eat a lot! 

[marykipper]

On 4/9/2023 at 4:51 PM, breals said:

This is the bit that worries me.  We all seem to be in the same boat.  And like everyone else, my impressions have tanked. 

The slump for me started in mid February, which coincided with the guidance that gig descriptions could now be written using chatGPT.  The algorithm clearly couldn't/can't cope with 100,000s of illiterate gigs now being re-written using a bot which are error free and SEO friendly. These gigs have now been re-indexed causing our numbers to fluctuate. 

It's this that is my biggest frustration, as most of us have spent a lot of time over the years refining and tweaking our gigs to be the best they can be.  But the reality is that someone who could barely string a sentence together in January, now has 1200 words of fully optimised content at the click of the button, and there isn't anything we can do about it. 

The impact of this seismic change in superficial gig quality over the last few months is what (in my opinion) has caused the issues with the algorithm, and not necessarily something Fiverr has done intentionally. 

Whether I'm right or wrong. the situation is starting to get bloody annoying! 

This tbh. I think you've hit the nail on it’s  head

[newsmike]

That'll be $29 please.

Edited April 11, 2023 by newsmike

[smashradio]

6 hours ago, newsmike said:

That would explain it if the impressions were still high but sales had dropped.  The problem here is that Fiverr is just not exposing our gigs, so no impressions. 

But would it? If buyers filter for cheaper sellers, not for pro/top rated, or use the price filter to match their budget, it could explain why the number of impressions dropped drastically.

I think there's more to it than Fiverr not exposing our gigs because my pro writing gigs have fewer impressions now, while my regular VO gig has about the same. Yet, when I search, I frequently show up on the top for relevant keywords that used to bring in lots of business on my writing gigs.

I believe I mentioned this already, but I found you on page one for multiple searches the last time I checked. That wouldn't happen if I filtered for anything below 120. 

5 hours ago, donnovan86 said:

I am not in those categories, yet I am still seeing a massive drop to the point where I have no orders or just a couple. And mostly I am a volume based seller, so this really hurts... That being said, I was told by my SM that first time buyers damaged my account, so yeah.. in my case I am extremely unhappy with this shift towards first time buyers, because a random dude with no knowledge of how the platform works or what they really want can really damage your account.. 

You make a good point, but I don't think my explanation is the only explanation or the only right one.

We've been telling sellers for years that their performance affects their visibility.

Now that it's happening to us, it's suddenly the algorithm's fault? I find that a bit fishy, even though I certainly agree with @newsmike that something is up, given that so many successful sellers are struggling now, and with his assessment of Seller Plus and the advice we're getting.

But I'm not sure we can just blame the algorithm, the SMs, or the "system" for working against us. 

We're in the middle of a financial crisis. Banks are failing, risk seems dangerous, budgets are cut, inflation is rampant, and costs are rising. I think we'd be fools to ignore that factor. 

It seems you got your answer, and at least you can do something about that: do more to make new buyers happy or stop working with people new to the platform to avoid risk. Both are valid approaches, in my opinion, but they shouldn't be necessary. 

I agree with you. Punishing experienced and successful sellers who have spent years building their reputation, profiles, and prosperity on Fiverr because of a few noob buyers is dangerous. It means we have to stop working with them or run the risk of very real damage to our revenue stream. 

5 hours ago, terrygrantvo said:

Pfft, for me that's food for three months... 

... but I did just eat mac 'n' cheese straight out of the pot with a wooden spoon, so...

Never underestimate mac 'n' cheese straight out of the pot with a wooden spoon. It's supposed to help maintain a high testosterone level. 

5 hours ago, vickiespencer said:

Not for my hubby and me. The prices at grocery stores continue to escalate due to the economy, and the grocery shelves have many bare spots. Only my hubby and I are at home, and we spend more on food now than when our three sons lived with us, and teenagers eat a lot! 

That is sort of my point. If you own a business and have to tighten your belt every time you visit a grocery store, you're less likely to spend your hard-earned money on marketing or other services you'd typically purchase on Fiverr. If you have to spend, you'll be looking for the best deals, and that means not filtering to find the top-tier sellers, but instead, looking for new/cheaper sellers trying to get started on the platform. 

Edited April 11, 2023 by smashradio

[miiila]

On 4/11/2023 at 8:00 AM, leannelrivers said:

The last question I got from my SM about this was if I'd turned on OOO when I went on holiday because that can affect orders.

Which, still, is a super illogical thing if it affects orders beyond the time you had it turned on. Just saying, in case Fiverr staff reads; you, of course, know that.

[newsmike]

[smashradio]

4 hours ago, newsmike said:

It looks like we have to stay afloat on advice as generic as a fortune cookie for now. This is like ordering a gourmet meal and receiving a bowl of unseasoned rice.

[kendal1747]

On 4/8/2023 at 3:16 PM, webcut said:

But in every month I suggest there should be an option for audit. Like SM will give a review after end of a month

This is wonderful in theory, but I have not been able to talk to the SM every month. I still paid the fee though.

On 4/9/2023 at 12:13 PM, leannelrivers said:

I assume there's a valid reason why use of chatGPT is banned in the forum but allowed for creating gig descriptions? 

Is this similar to the phrase, "Do as I say, not as I do"?

On 4/10/2023 at 9:59 AM, melanielm said:

The mysterious, multi-faceted slump needs to be addressed somehow. Fiverr depends on a solution as much as we do, I think.

Maybe we should go to the Fiverr Secrets Sellers. Maybe they know what is going on for a fee? LOL

On 4/11/2023 at 9:36 AM, newsmike said:

That would explain it if the impressions were still high but sales had dropped.  The problem here is that Fiverr is just not exposing our gigs, so no impressions.

I agree with you. I have suspected for a couple of months now, that I am not getting the exposure. My impressions have gone to nothing almost.