An Open Letter To Success Managers

[newsmike]

Dear Success Managers,

To take a page from Micah Kaufman's recent "Open Letter to AI" in the New York Times, let me state clearly that as Fiverr sellers, we come in peace.

There is no doubt that the "seller plus" concept provides valuable insight, but in light of the many successful sellers who recently suffered a simultaneous and unexplainable drop in impressions and sales, we ask that you consider offering more substantial remedies to address the problem.

For example, many in the forum have told some version of the following story. In late January or early February, impressions dropped to nearly nothing. In my case from thousands per day to maybe 100 if I am lucky. Of course as impressions go, so do sales. As many other did, we turned to our SM's for answers, and unfortunately, we received essentially the following as advice:

• Look at your keywords
• Freshen your gigs
• Create additional gigs

This is largely the same sort of cut and paste advice that non SP members get whenever they contact support and ask why they are not getting sales. However in this case, it was many very successful sellers with well performing gigs that were essentially switched off simultaneously.

Let me state clearly that I very much like both my previous and current SM's, and in no way blame the following analysis on them, but instead on the secretive and opaque system that prevents them from providing any assistance that is truly actionable. 

I am not alone in having been told flat out that there are things which the SM's cannot share with us, however I am not asking for the key to the algorithm. I am instead asking why after many of us have counseled with our SM's, not one person has said they received any real analysis or more importantly a strategy to fix the problem. Again, we are successful sellers who suddenly hit a wall, not noobs asking why we are not getting sales. 

I personally pay $348 per year for SP. My hope is that for that amount of money, I would get a deep analysis of exactly why I am suddenly experiencing this, along with specific recommendations to fix it. Otherwise, what is the point?  I could save the money and email support to be told the review my keywords.

I am not writing to complain about the SM's, as I know their hands are tied and they are only allowed to provide vague and generic help.  But when something of this magnitude sidelines a bunch of successful sellers, I'd like to ask if the SM's cannot become advocates for us, with specific advice to actually fix the issue.

We are, after all paying for such help. 

SM's, I am asking for you to advocate for us and "Manage our Success". Perhaps discuss amongst yourselves and management how you can provide actionable help for those of us who continue to subscribe to premium help in the form of "SP" who are now presenting you with a real problem and are looking to you for help and guidance. 

I look forward to your response. 

Thank You

 

Edited April 8, 2023 by newsmike

[damooch916]

Mike: I’m in the process of writing an open letter to the success managers on the forum. 
 

Tommy: That’s such a bad idea that it seems like something I would do.

 

Mike: I take that as a compliment.

 

Tommy: Oh no. What have I done? 

[words_to_wow]

47 minutes ago, newsmike said:

Dear Success Managers,

To take a page from Micah Kaufman's recent "Open Letter to AI" in the New York Times, let me state clearly that as Fiverr sellers, we come in peace.

There is no doubt that the "seller plus" concept provides valuable insight, but in light of the many successful sellers who recently suffered a simultaneous and unexplainable drop in impressions and sales, we ask that you consider offering more substantial remedies to address the problem.

For example, many in the forum have told some version of the following story. In late January or early February, impressions dropped to nearly nothing. In my case from thousands per day to maybe 100 if I am lucky. Of course as impressions go, so do sales. As many other did, we turned to our SM's for answers, and unfortunately, we received essentially the following as advice:

• Look at your keywords
• Freshen your gigs
• Create additional gigs

This is largely the same sort of cut and paste advice that non SP members get whenever they contact support and ask why they are not getting sales. However in this case, it was many very successful sellers with well performing gigs that were essentially switched off simultaneously.

Let me state clearly that I very much like both my previous and current SM's, and in no way blame the following analysis on them, but instead on the secretive and opaque system that prevents them from providing any assistance that is truly actionable. 

I am not alone in having been told flat out that there are things which the SM's cannot share with us, however I am not asking for the key to the algorithm. I am instead asking why after many of us have counseled with our SM's, not one person has said they received any real analysis or more importantly a strategy to fix the problem. Again, we are successful sellers who suddenly hit a wall, not noobs asking why we are not getting sales. 

I personally pay $348 per year for SP. My hope is that for that amount of money, I would get a deep analysis of exactly why I am suddenly experiencing this, along with specific recommendations to fix it. Otherwise, what is the point?  I could save the money and email support to be told the review my keywords.

I am not writing to complain about the SM's, as I know their hands are tied and they are only allowed to provide vague and generic help.  But when something of this magnitude sidelines a bunch of successful sellers, I'd like to ask if the SM's cannot become advocates for us, with specific advice to actually fix the issue.

We are, after all paying for such help. 

SM's, I am asking for you to advocate for us and "Manage our Success". Perhaps discuss amongst yourselves and management how you can provide actionable help for those of us who continue to subscribe to premium help in the form of "SP" who are now presenting you with a real problem and are looking to you for help and guidance. 

I look forward to your response. 

Thank You

 

I love this. You are absolutely right!

[newsmike]

11 minutes ago, damooch916 said:

Mike: I’m in the process of writing an open letter to the success managers on the forum. 
 

Tommy: That’s such a bad idea that it seems like something I would do.

 

Mike: I take that as a compliment.

 

Tommy: Oh no. What have I done? 

 

It's like going to the doctor with a broken arm, and being told "Don't smoke, exercise and watch what you eat. That'll be $348 please." 

 

 

Edited April 8, 2023 by newsmike

[theratypist]

Looking forward to the progress of this thread. Thank you for sharing Mike!

[newsmike]

4 minutes ago, theratypist said:

Looking forward to the progress of this thread. Thank you for sharing Mike!

Same here. I think the system that does not allow SM's to really help us needs review and reinvention. I would have welcomed something along the lines of "Let's take a snapshot of your KPI's today, then I want you to do these 3 things. Then let's meet in 1 month to look at the KPI's"  That is success management worth paying for.  

Edited April 8, 2023 by newsmike

[katakatica]

I think in a way, SP has given me a lot (I love having my SM for random questions and ideas, I love some of the features) but it's also brought in the same-ish level of anxiety. Knowing if there is a drop (which I was told twice before) but not knowing how to 'correct' it (even if I was given hints/etc.) is just a bit... difficult, I suppose. If there's a reason, by all means, I deserve to be in 'Fiverr Jail', but the only way for me to know that is if I am told what I can improve (other than generic 'better keywords, etc.' I did get one great tip that made me sort of focus more on streamlined communication and correcting some typos (not proud of the time I didn't have glasses, the broken ones made it worse, and I really was underperforming a bit though it wasn't on purpose, I did everything the same, I just couldn't see .

The other thing made me focus on sort of clear talk with buyers, which I struggle with, but it works ( it's fewer pleasantries and more 'hey, this is my process, we are doing step 1. If you like what I send, let me know. If not, let me know what you'd like tweaked'. 

That really helped, to be honest, but I wish we could get more info like this, I think? Or just a view into our ratings (from the inside) and what the buyers might think could be improved. 

[fiveroptic1]

Well I'm glad it's not just me @newsmike!! My personal 'fall off a cliff' happened around that time. I consulted my SM, who said that my private feedback was good.  So, I was told was to change my gigs, metadata etc and see what happens. My issue is, why change something when it was working perfectly before?? What EXACTLY am I meant to change and more to the point, why?? Above all, if my gigs were producing results 'yesterday' why are they now not working today?? So, I share your exasperation Mike - with no in depth reasoning or rationale from SMs as to the cause - how on earth can we go about correcting it?? For $29 a month, I too expect something a bit less arbitrary, random & opaque - a bit more than frankly, what is available to any seller on the platform. Seller Plus really ain't fit for purpose as things stand....      

Edited April 8, 2023 by fiveroptic1

[webcut]

2 hours ago, newsmike said:

Dear Success Managers,

To take a page from Micah Kaufman's recent "Open Letter to AI" in the New York Times, let me state clearly that as Fiverr sellers, we come in peace.

There is no doubt that the "seller plus" concept provides valuable insight, but in light of the many successful sellers who recently suffered a simultaneous and unexplainable drop in impressions and sales, we ask that you consider offering more substantial remedies to address the problem.

For example, many in the forum have told some version of the following story. In late January or early February, impressions dropped to nearly nothing. In my case from thousands per day to maybe 100 if I am lucky. Of course as impressions go, so do sales. As many other did, we turned to our SM's for answers, and unfortunately, we received essentially the following as advice:

• Look at your keywords
• Freshen your gigs
• Create additional gigs

This is largely the same sort of cut and paste advice that non SP members get whenever they contact support and ask why they are not getting sales. However in this case, it was many very successful sellers with well performing gigs that were essentially switched off simultaneously.

Let me state clearly that I very much like both my previous and current SM's, and in no way blame the following analysis on them, but instead on the secretive and opaque system that prevents them from providing any assistance that is truly actionable. 

I am not alone in having been told flat out that there are things which the SM's cannot share with us, however I am not asking for the key to the algorithm. I am instead asking why after many of us have counseled with our SM's, not one person has said they received any real analysis or more importantly a strategy to fix the problem. Again, we are successful sellers who suddenly hit a wall, not noobs asking why we are not getting sales. 

I personally pay $348 per year for SP. My hope is that for that amount of money, I would get a deep analysis of exactly why I am suddenly experiencing this, along with specific recommendations to fix it. Otherwise, what is the point?  I could save the money and email support to be told the review my keywords.

I am not writing to complain about the SM's, as I know their hands are tied and they are only allowed to provide vague and generic help.  But when something of this magnitude sidelines a bunch of successful sellers, I'd like to ask if the SM's cannot become advocates for us, with specific advice to actually fix the issue.

We are, after all paying for such help. 

SM's, I am asking for you to advocate for us and "Manage our Success". Perhaps discuss amongst yourselves and management how you can provide actionable help for those of us who continue to subscribe to premium help in the form of "SP" who are now presenting you with a real problem and are looking to you for help and guidance. 

I look forward to your response. 

Thank You

 

You share a lot of issue with SM. Usually we don't use SM properly. Everyone is busy with working and most of the seller not asking for help. I don't know how to get a proper solution on it ! But in every month I suggest there should be an option for audit. Like SM will give a review after end of a month. Then seller can adjust and find their way to solve any issue !

[miiila]

18 hours ago, newsmike said:

 

It's like going to the doctor with a broken arm, and being told "Don't smoke, exercise and watch what you eat. That'll be $348 please." 

 

 

And you may have caught COVID or something whilst in the waiting room, too. Next time, just ask ChatGPT from the comfort of your home, instead of going to the doctor's for that level of advice, and YT how to DIY your arm surgery.

[newsmike]

51 minutes ago, miiila said:

Next time, just ask ChatGPT from the comfort of your home

@miiila  Brilliant idea.  Guess what? ChatGPT gives the same "non answer answers," and 100% free!

 

[leannelrivers]

Thanks for creating this post, Mike. We do come in peace!

I'm very grateful for what my previous and current SM's have done for me. I probably wouldn't be a Pro seller without their help, kindess and encouragement, and the scope of my offer has increased and improved. My SM is always there to answer questions and offer support where they can. I felt I was getting more than my money's worth. My BSR did drop briefly some months ago, and my SM couldn't give me specifics about the private review that tanked me, just advice on improving my communication. Even though that lower BSR hit me, I was still getting orders, so I just rode it out.

But I'm now experiencing the worst slump I've ever had since I joined Fiverr in 2018. Like Mike, I've gone from thousands of impressions and hundreds of clicks to less than 100 clicks some weeks. Even as a newbie, I had at least three orders a week. And the pandemic didn't harm me. I got more work. For the first time, I'm asking myself, will I get enough Fiverr orders to justify the SP fee? Again, not because my SM isn't great but because I feel it's run its course and that the money is better spent elsewhere now that I'm investing in other options. 

I do not want to come across as an ungrateful, entitled brat. This drought could be down to a massive market slowdown, turbulence, shifting budgets, layoffs, AI, christmas-new year-easter-spring-summer holidays and work-for-peanuts freelancers all glomming together and contributing to this... Whatever this is. Our SM's can only do so much, and I'm not blaming them, but there should be more transparency. If my SM were to throw their hands in the air and tell me they don't know what else they can do to help me, I would respect that and decide whether or not I want to stay in the program. 

[danno1950]

20 hours ago, theratypist said:

Looking forward to the progress of this thread. Thank you for sharing Mike!

I completely agree. Thanks for posting this Mike!

[newsmike]

15 minutes ago, leannelrivers said:

Thanks for creating this post, Mike. We do come in peace!

I'm very grateful for what my previous and current SM's have done for me. I probably wouldn't be a Pro seller without their help, kindess and encouragement, and the scope of my offer has increased and improved. My SM is always there to answer questions and offer support where they can. I felt I was getting more than my money's worth. My BSR did drop briefly some months ago, and my SM couldn't give me specifics about the private review that tanked me, just advice on improving my communication. Even though that lower BSR hit me, I was still getting orders, so I just rode it out.

But I'm now experiencing the worst slump I've ever had since I joined Fiverr in 2018. Like Mike, I've gone from thousands of impressions and hundreds of clicks to less than 100 clicks some weeks. Even as a newbie, I had at least three orders a week. And the pandemic didn't harm me. I got more work. For the first time, I'm asking myself, will I get enough Fiverr orders to justify the SP fee? Again, not because my SM isn't great but because I feel it's run its course and that the money is better spent elsewhere now that I'm investing in other options. 

I do not want to come across as an ungrateful, entitled brat. This drought could be down to a massive market slowdown, turbulence, shifting budgets, layoffs, AI, christmas-new year-easter-spring-summer holidays and work-for-peanuts freelancers all glomming together and contributing to this... Whatever this is. Our SM's can only do so much, and I'm not blaming them, but there should be more transparency. If my SM were to throw their hands in the air and tell me they don't know what else they can do to help me, I would respect that and decide whether or not I want to stay in the program. 

Precisely. In normal times SM's are terrific for helping get a new seller up to speed. This however is an unusual event where many of the most successful sellers who have driven millions in sales have been reduced to invisibility. Most likely, most of us don't put as much demand on our SM's as we once did because as success grows there is less need. But when something like this happens, of course we turn to them not for routine advice, but to address the sudden, simultaneous drop in many seller's metrics.  TBH, the email that "accidentally" went out stating that we all had lousy private feedback at the same time is still not sitting right with me. It feels like the system mistakenly flagged and penalized all of us, and even though SM's admitted that it was a mistake, it feels like no one has let us out of the penalty box.

We all agree that the SM's hands are tied, but the question becomes, is that right given what's happening to so many at the same time and in the same way?  So far the suggestions have been off target, generic and vague. I still hold out 24 hours after posting this that some SM will respond, indicating that they are having  a meeting to help us. 

We need more than what we get from ChatGPT, as demonstrated upstream in this thread.

Again, I don't blame the SM's, however, even an acknowledgement of this thread would be nice,. But I feel that we deserve some level of actual intervention since we are paying good money for someone to "manage our success." 

Edited April 9, 2023 by newsmike

[leannelrivers]

5 minutes ago, newsmike said:

It feels like the system mistakenly flagged and penalized all of us, and even though SM's admitted that it was a mistake, it feels like no one has let us out of the penalty box.

Yep. The effect has been the same as it would have been after a genuine drop in BSR - reduced visibility, next to no orders. So the assurance that our BSR is fine regardless of the email still doesn't feel right. 

[danno1950]

I'm thinking of emailing this thread to my SM. Thoughts?

[newsmike]

Just now, danno1950 said:

I'm thinking of emailing this thread to my SM. Thoughts?

I was thinking of posting a link to it in the SP section of the forum. 

[danno1950]

1 minute ago, newsmike said:

I was thinking of posting a link to it in the SP section of the forum. 

Even better. I just wanted to make sure the SMs were alerted to the existence of this thread. A personal email to my SM felt like it might be interpreted as a little confrontational.

Edited April 9, 2023 by danno1950

[visualstudios]

There's no point to it. I've said that, and more, and nothing ever changes. I've had 4 SM's so far. Some better, some far worse. I don't get to rate them (why?). My feedback is clearly not wanted. I've linked them forum threads. Crickets - they give the corporate spiel (many times ignoring what I complained about), and just gloss over what they don't have the corporate answer to. Because there isn't one.

Even in the forum threads started by Fiverr employees, they just drop whatever bomb they want, and then ignore any replies or questions if they aren't convenient for them.

Edited April 9, 2023 by visualstudios

[breals]

2 hours ago, leannelrivers said:

But I'm now experiencing the worst slump I've ever had since I joined Fiverr in 2018. Like Mike, I've gone from thousands of impressions and hundreds of clicks to less than 100 clicks some weeks.

This is the bit that worries me.  We all seem to be in the same boat.  And like everyone else, my impressions have tanked. 

The slump for me started in mid February, which coincided with the guidance that gig descriptions could now be written using chatGPT.  The algorithm clearly couldn't/can't cope with 100,000s of illiterate gigs now being re-written using a bot which are error free and SEO friendly. These gigs have now been re-indexed causing our numbers to fluctuate. 

It's this that is my biggest frustration, as most of us have spent a lot of time over the years refining and tweaking our gigs to be the best they can be.  But the reality is that someone who could barely string a sentence together in January, now has 1200 words of fully optimised content at the click of the button, and there isn't anything we can do about it. 

The impact of this seismic change in superficial gig quality over the last few months is what (in my opinion) has caused the issues with the algorithm, and not necessarily something Fiverr has done intentionally. 

Whether I'm right or wrong. the situation is starting to get bloody annoying! 

Edited April 9, 2023 by breals

[leannelrivers]

13 minutes ago, breals said:

This is the bit that worries me.  We all seem to be in the same boat.  And like everyone else, my impressions have tanked. 

The slump for me started in mid February, which coincided with the guidance that gig descriptions could now be written using chatGPT.  The algorithm clearly couldn't/can't cope with 100,000s of illiterate gigs now being re-written using a bot which are error free and SEO friendly. These gigs have now been re-indexed causing our numbers to fluctuate. 

It's this that is my biggest frustration, as a most of us have spent a lot of time over the years refining and tweaking our gigs to be the best they can be.  But the reality is that someone who could barely string a sentence together in January, now has 1200 words of fully optimised content at the click of the button, and there isn't anything we can do about it. 

The impact of this seismic change in superficial gig quality over the last few months is what (in my opinion) has caused the issues with the algorithm, and not necessarily something Fiverr has done intentionally. 

Whether I'm right or wrong. the situation is starting to get bloody annoying! 

You make some really good points. I hadn't really stopped to consider the magnitude of the impact these changes to gigs would have across the board. 

I assume there's a valid reason why use of chatGPT is banned in the forum but allowed for creating gig descriptions? 

20 minutes ago, breals said:

someone who could barely string a sentence together in January, now has 1200 words of fully optimised content at the click of the button, and there isn't anything we can do about it. 

😑 Presumably these same sellers will have to communicate with English speaking buyers using chatGPT too.

[frank_d]

We need private feedback from sellers to SM. 😈

I’m joking obviously, but what Mike says rings true: if the Seller Plus program is there to help us succeed it has failed since a lit of well-performing sellers saw such a huge drop, and if I see the “create more gigs” response one more time, I’m gonna lose it.

[imagination7413]

33 minutes ago, leannelrivers said:

I assume there's a valid reason why use of chatGPT is banned in the forum but allowed for creating gig descriptions? 

Only uncited AI generated content. If someone says "hey, I plugged your question into ChatGPT, and this is what it gave me" at the head of the post, then it's not plagiarism. Main Fiverr platform states the same thing:

Quote

Artificial Intelligence (AI) generated content.

Fiverr embraces the use of new technology and allows content generated by users with the help of artificial intelligence (AI) tools and programs.

However, whenever AI is a part of the work process, it should be proactively disclosed to  buyers through the Gig description, and/or during any order requirements discussion.

Source: https://www.fiverr.com/community/standards/intellectual-property

[leannelrivers]

14 minutes ago, frank_d said:

if I see the “create more gigs” response one more time, I’m gonna lose it.

My top seller is 'strong, warm British voice over'. But I think it's 'warm, strong British voice over' that's going to be the key to my continued success on this platform. Or maybe 'voice over, British, with warmth and strength' 😉 

[coerdelion]

4 hours ago, leannelrivers said:

Yep. The effect has been the same as it would have been after a genuine drop in BSR - reduced visibility, next to no orders. So the assurance that our BSR is fine regardless of the email still doesn't feel right. 

Everything stays in the database, whether fixed or not.  A cancellation, for example, even though our stats on the front end are not affected, remains in the database and affects impressions.  It can take up to six months to recover.  This is always denied by CS and SSMs, but that denial is pure gaslighting, because you can see it with your own eyes in analytics. 

People who got BSR warnings, even though it was a mistake, still have those flags in the database, even though no seller can see them.  Please don't try to deny it. 

The March drop, particularly with respect to TRSs and Pros has something to do with the algorithm and is not connected to images, titles, metadata and descriptions. 

I turned off all promoted gigs.  That seemed to help.  Weirdly.

Now off to stuff my face with more chocolate.  Does it help?  Yes it does