Petition To stop the 5 Star Rating System

[youtubefun]

I gave up this fight then saw how many hasn’t.

So I too cant give this up ever.

For if we lose this all maybe lost.

From Sellers just " We give Up" For they cant take the stress of it all.

Tho I do know one of us needs to build a comment basicd thing like this to where comments just

don’t stop,Fiverr can only look way for so long until the time they say we hear you!!!

My rating on my order has gone down 90% Tho still the one as of yet give me 5 stars but more I think

out of fear of me never doing another order for them.

And this is so wrong!!!

So with every comment your saying,"Yes we want this to GO!!!"

For “WE ARE THE PEOPLE OF FIVERR”

[mimie01]

Beautifull

[regency85]

Nice to see you back, @youtubefun



As I told you in your earlier post, you must NEVER give up, nor give in to the “Wussies” who have posted elsewhere, that it’s Politically Incorrect to be Assertive in standing up for what is right!

=D>

[youtubefun]

Reply to @regency85: You are right for that is why I’m back.

And thank you.

[Guest friendbear]

Good luck with your petition, but unfortunatly, I don’t really think its gonna take off. The 5 star rating system is not for stress, it’s so other buyers could see if the product is worth it. How would it be if Amazon, Ebay, and everything involving buying things didn’t have a 5 Star rating?



To prevent an under 5 star, all you have to do is listen to what the buyer has to say, and do it like you would on any other gig. You don’t have to go our of your way to change this, change that, to make every single order unique. Ask if the buyer is unhappy with anything after you delivered, then you change it asap. But if you have a consecutive product every time, there shouldn’t be too much of a problem.



Then again, i see your point. People who write or draw can’t do what I said above. But you can be sure you have the absolute skills you need to do what you have to, and ask lots of questions down to the letter or pixel of the writing or paper. The more specific the buyer is, the better the seller is.



One last thing, if you can’t handle the stress, you shouldn’t sell. Don’t complain about stuff like this when YOU are the one who can’t take it and when everyone else is pretty much okay with it.



(yes I do know that I have only sold 1 gig, with 1 in queue, but I have sole in other places before.)

[youtubefun]

That was from a buyer!!!

So will you fight,Or lay down.

Your choice you pick.

[mrproofreading]

Reply to @friendbear: No, this isn’t true in the slightest.



I had a buyer rate 4.5 stars overall with excellent verbal feedback “fantastic product, very professional” etc.



After messaging him, he said he doesn’t like giving 5 star ratings as it devalues the rating system. He didn’t realise 4.5 was necessarily bad. People clearly think 3/4 is acceptable; when in actual fact, receiving such a rating on a consistent basis would kill sellers. This wouldn’t have occurred with a thumbs up/down system.



Youtubefun, like almost every ardent seller, is sick of fiverr making changes which don’t benefit sellers in any way whatsoever. He’s not “stressed”, he offers a subjective service, which, if the ARS is fully implemented, will destroy his hard-earned rating.



The gigs he offers are for novelty purposes, and are probably purchased as “one-offs”, so how can a buyer genuinely say they would buy it again? They wouldn’t, so he’d receive a 3/4 star rating. Fair? No.

[steveeyes]

Reply to @friendbear: Boy there are so many holes in your arguments not sure where to begin. But lets start with one misnomer you stated. You said “when everyone else is pretty much okay with it” Show me, give me a link, something to prove that everyone is pretty much ok with it. You may find 2 or 3 while there are hundreds who are not.



Besides, someone who has a total of 1 sale on fiverr pretty much puts it all in perspective where you are coming from, at least it does for me.

[Guest friendbear]

Reply to @steveeyes: You say many holes, yet you only state one. Out of the 2 or 3 hundreds of people who are not okay with this, how many has posted here? How many people are on this site? I didn’t say EVERYONE I said MAJORITY. There is probably at the VERY LEAST a million people who use this site. 2 or 3 hundred is a tiny dent.

[Guest friendbear]

Reply to @mrproofreading: You make a good point. However, in a thumbs up or down system, what if its not terrible, but not great? Should we implement a “so-so” button too? What happens when that does happen and the person you are talking about doesnt want to give a thumbs up and only gives a so so? Then what? There are always going to be something that some people don’t like about rating systems. There will ALWAYS be a “party pooper” who ruins someones hard earned rating.



It is not fair, but lets be honest, LIFE isn’t meant to be fair.

[Guest friendbear]

Reply to @steveeyes: I do know that I only had one sale. But as I said above, LIFE isn’t meant to be fair.

[stop_it_man]

Reply to @friendbear:

friendbear said: To prevent an under 5 star, all you have to do is listen to what the buyer has to say, and do it like you would on any other gig. You don't have to go our of your way to change this, change that, to make every single order unique.

Friendbear, I have done over 1800 gigs and never received anything less than a stellar review. My VERY FIRST REVIEW under the new system was less than five stars. I delivered the voiceover he bought IN FOUR HOURS TIME. The quality was, if I say so myself, top-notch. I told him, as I always tell all my buyers, that I will provide revisions - for free - for anything they have a problem with. The buyer's written review was glowing, yet he was one of these "can't give a perfect score" types. Friendbear, I respect your opinion, but what you are saying is simply incorrect, bereft of anything of anything close to fact, and my own personal experience is all the proof necessary to refute everything you have said here. The French have a saying: "The beginning of wisdom is to call things what they really are." The Stars System is a bad, bad move, full stop. Why you would white-knight it is beyond me, but as I said, I respect your opinion.

[Guest friendbear]

Reply to @stop_it_man: Like I said in my previous replies, Life is simply not fair. 😛



There’s no way to FULLY STOP a under 5, but to prevent one… thats a different story.

[stop_it_man]

Reply to @friendbear: The issue isn’t whether or not life is meant to be fair. The issue is whether or not this new system is good for business. It isn’t. This isn’t a philosophical discussion, it’s a practical discussion. Your platitudes carry the whiff of trolling, and I’m starting to lose my aforementioned respect for your opinion.

[steveeyes]

Reply to @friendbear: Well that should make your job even easier.

Come on, show me out of those millions 20 or more people who wants the star system. Come on you can do it.



Yet, you don’t have to go any further than this forum or Fiverr’s ARS blog to find hundreds who are against it. If there were so many for it, I would think I would find at least a few dozen saying so but I can’t find them so please help us out and show us.



Wait! You are assuming, right, that out millions who said nothing they all want the star system. Wow, you know what they say about assumptions. If you had the proof you would show it but you don’t. You are on your little one sale island without proof.



By the way, I don’t have to assume, I can click your username, go to your profile and count. Wait, you are assuming again, right, that you will have thousands of sales. Good luck with that.

[anarchofighter]

First Friend Bear,



I won’t support any fiverr member cruelty one way or another.



As long as I have the “badge” (rolls eyes) I expect people to be polite in their disagreements.



You asked to see more of your holes, so let’s do it.

friendbear said: Good luck with your petition, but unfortunatly, I don't really think its gonna take off.

Thank you for the wishes of luck. I take it by the wishes of luck that you support the cause. Otherwise, it would suggest your "wish" was rhetorical and insincere.

We really cannot have a meaningful discussion if there's not sincerity both ways.

The 5 star rating system is not for stress, it's so other buyers could see if the product is worth it.

Hole 1: The ARS is creating stress. So it has failed at what it wishes to "not be" per your claim.

Hole 2: The ARS does not help buyers decide if a product is "worth it" for the following reasons.

--- All gigs are rated together if a buyer purchased the $5 core gig, a $5, $10 $20, $40, $50, or $100 gig extra, they're all rated the same if the person purchased 20 gigs at one time, or even multiples gigs and gig extras.

This means there's never a way by the "rating" to evaluate the difference in quality for making good gig extra decisions.

Now, I'm not surprised you wouldn't have considered this because you're just beginning your gigging here at Fiverr and you've not yet leveled up. But when you do, you'll realize that there is a qualitative and quantitative difference with extras.

--- The ARS is more subjective and this more noisy. I don't know if you didn't read the many threads on the subject but there is documented pictures of a buyer saying to a seller your gig probably deserved 5-stars, but I don't like to give 5-stars so you get 4.5

Another picture shows a buyer who was clearly confused about the "method" and rated 1 star with a review that said the seller was Awesome, that they'd order again and it was exactly what they wanted.

Another picture shows a buyer who rated deliver 3 stars because fiverr CALLS 3-stars satisfactory (even though they also call 3 stars 'negative feedback' when they announce the action in our to-do-list) for delivery even though it was delivered 3 days before the deadline.

--- Fewer Buyers are leaving feedback because of this system

That means the abusers get a STRONGER VOICE!

--- There have already been ugly sexist comments made, threats, and follow ups of 1 star ratings.

And on and on.

Hole 3: You argument if fallacious because it's a strawman. No one is saying there shouldn't be REVIEWS. So the ARS is a complexity in a system that was already superior.

Hole 4: Fiverr worked just fine for 3 years without this system.

We already HAD "stars" and Percentages" in the form of (Up Votes) / (Total Votes) ...and that at least better reflects the kind of equality that makes sense if there's going to be a treatment of equality between the review of a $100 purchase and a $5 one. Now we have buyers making 3 individual decisions on a $5 purchase!

How would it be if Amazon, Ebay, and everything involving buying things didn't have a 5 Star rating?

Hole 5: It would be fine as long as there are reviews.

The research shows that the problem with "rating" reviews is when people use it as a sloppy way to do their research. Reading reviews is much more important.

Fiverr doesn't make reading older reviews easy.

Hole 6: Ratings are even less reliable when there are few ratings.

With the way the system is being implemented on Fiverr, even people with years of selling experience are having much of that overlooked as the stars are being made the focus.

Hole 7: The level of "interaction" and "intimacy" between buyers and sellers are different with products and services. What does it take to deliver on an ebay order? Waiting for the postal officer to come to your house and collect the package. What does it take to deliver on a Fiverr order?

Again, you may not have a good sense of it as a first time seller (and welcome to the club, your first sale is very important)

To prevent an under 5 star, all you have to do is listen to what the buyer has to say, and do it like you would on any other gig. You don't have to go our of your way to change this, change that, to make every single order unique.

This is naive of you. I actually admire that about you! You think very well of your fellow human, but know not enough human nature.

See the above comments about people just not wanting to GIVE 5-star reviews, in part, because Fiverr puts a word like "excellent" on it.

Hole 8: And, the categories don't make sense for all gigs, which leads to conflict inside HONEST reviewers.

Hole 9: There is simply NO WAY to guarantee a 5-star review.

Ask if the buyer is unhappy with anything after you delivered, then you change it asap. But if you have a consecutive product every time, there shouldn't be too much of a problem.

Then again, i see your point. People who write or draw can't do what I said above.

I'm glad you're seeing one of the holes in your position.

But what's worse, is this again ignores human nature.

Hole 10: If you invite people to be "unhappy with something" by asking if they're "unhappy with anything" you put them in a state to think about "unhappy things" before they rate you
Hole 11: You assume that "as soon as possible" is "good enough" for a buyer to rate you 5-stars on "met expectation" and/or "delivery speed". Plus, ASAP can be impacted by time zone difference and/or lifestyle differences if someone is not full-time with fiverr or has young children where they cannot make noise at night. etc.

But you can be sure you have the absolute skills you need to do what you have to, and ask lots of questions down to the letter or pixel of the writing or paper. The more specific the buyer is, the better the seller is.

Hole 12 to 999: You assume that asking questions will lead to a GOOD rating (rather than only a better product). I can speak for myself, what if my expectation is "you don't have to ask me a lot of questions" ...you do, to deliver a great product I would repurchase, but you get 1-* because I didn't expect to need to have all the back and forth.

Again, you cannot guarantee a 5-star rating.

One last thing, if you can't handle the stress, you shouldn't sell. Don't complain about stuff like this when YOU are the one who can't take it

Hole 1000: This is authoritatian, blame the victim stuff. You might as well have said, "Don't wear a sexy dress out in public if you don't want to be verbally assaulted. Don't hold your boyfriend's hand in public if you don't want to be gay bashed.

This is blaming the victim.

Hole 1001: It implies there couldn't be any unreasonable level of stress. It also implies that you or anyone else COULD have unlimited stress repelent / stress management resources.

Hole 1002: It implies that even if one did, that there's no relationship between cost and benefit. That is, even if I can handle the stress, should I have to for $5/$4? There has to be some point at which you too would stop dealing with it unless you're a masochist.

Hole 1003: This is the "Love it or leave it" fallacy.

We can have a legitimate grievance and that should be heard and respected.

Would you say the same thing to miners in unsafe conditions? Sweat shops? Etc.

[anarchofighter]

Reply to @anarchofighter:

...everyone else is pretty much okay with it.

Now here's where I really cry foul on you.

You latter came back when called out on this that ...

I didn't say EVERYONE I said MAJORITY. There is probably at the VERY LEAST a million people who use this site. 2 or 3 hundred is a tiny dent.

While you didn't say 'everyone' (on that point you're correct) you absolutely didn't say "the majority" greater than 50% ...you said "everyone else is PRETTY MUCH okay with it.

Now it's also a fair reading to take it that you are saying "everyone is okay with it" (pretty much) or that "pretty much everyone" (which is a whole lot more than a majority).

Hole: 99,123: But what's worse, is your taking the absence of evidence to be the evidence of absence.

Of those millions of members, who many did any business on fiverr in the past 10 days or say the ARS has existed?

How many of those haven't been BACK yet to know the change exists?

How many of those were in the window where it was still the old system?

This argument borders on dishonest, and hadn't you seen the flaw in your own position about artists, I would ask if you were being sincere...

...however, I believe you are. Hope this helps.
Remember, I didn't make Swiss cheese of your post, ...it was put up that way (full of holes)

[anarchofighter]

friendbear said: It is not fair, but lets be honest, LIFE isn't meant to be fair.

 

Okay, I've changed my mind, you're not behaving like a sincere person.

 

You're behaving like a troll would.

 

If the claim is this is unjust and your response is...suck it, life isn't fair, you NOT actually disagreeing just being disagreeable.

 

[anarchofighter]

friendbear said: Should we implement a "so-so" button too?

 

We already have a so-so button, leaving no feedback at all.

[anarchofighter]

friendbear said: There will ALWAYS be a "party pooper" who ruins someones hard earned rating.

 

False equivalency, that there may always be abuses is no reason to CHANGE to a system where well intentioned people who don't WANT to hurt your rating do so!

 

Common now, be real.

[anarchofighter]

stop_it_man said: Your platitudes carry the whiff of trolling, and I'm starting to lose my aforementioned respect for your opinion

 

I went through the same transformation.

[stop_it_man]

Reply to @anarchofighter: Actually, I visited her profile, and now I feel kinda bad for being so strident in my responses. Either she is remarkably young-looking, or she’s actually a kid.

@friendbear, if you’re reading this, I’m sorry for being so harsh. Bad form on my part.

[youtubefun]

Lets keep the fight strong

[Guest friendbear]

Reply to @steveeyes: I apologize if i have aggravated you, but really theres no need to be snappy. It is not an assumption that Fiverr has millions of users. Its GLOBAL site ranking is 137 and in the US it is 67. http://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/fiverr.com



Also, on the Android market: "Fiverr,® the world’s largest marketplace for services"



Wikipedia: “Currently, Fiverr lists more than three million services on the site” (3mil gigs, max amount of gigs is 100, so the min amount of people on Fiverr has to be 3000.



“Additionally, Fiverr.com has been ranked among the top 100 most popular sites in the U.S. and top 150 in the world since the beginning of 2013.” (Wikipedia)



While we are talking about assumptions, you are also assuming that 200-300 people want the 5 star system gone. You are also assuming that Fiverr a GINORMOUS company will listen to you.



I don’t mean to be mean. I don’t want to be mean. But you don’t have to waste your time right now, arguing with a 13 year old.

---

Alexa - Actionable Analytics for the Web

http://www.alexa.com

[Guest friendbear]

Reply to @stop_it_man: I swear I am not trolling. I am just a 13 year old who doesnt know what she is doing. You don;t have to sit here and argue with me. Sorry if I have offended you, and I also respect your opinion.