Jump to content

Fiver does not protect sellers.


Recommended Posts

Despite the repercussion that this may have on my account, I don't want to remain silent, I can't take it anymore, this situation that sellers are experiencing due to the bad decisions of fiverr support is unbearable.

During these months I have suffered abuse from some buyers who request the cancellation of the order once it is finished or for reasons that have nothing to do with me.  In my case I have lost thousands of dollars and hours of work.  And the worst thing is that fiverr support always proves them right.

 

I will present my latest cases.  The client placed an order for a website and product launch.  I finished the website, and scheduled a release date.  Everything was ready, I even gave several training talks to the client.  Ok, so the client after having everything ready says that he wants to postpone the launch of the product to the end of the month.  So I'm waiting for a confirmation from him.  And the client opens a dispute saying that the launch has not been done on time, when clearly he asked me to postpone the launch.  Without any logic, fiver support proves him right and I lose hundreds of dollars and many hours of work.

 

Another case.  The client requests a website.  Finally I complete the order and show it to the customer.  Due to an error on the part of the client, he incorrectly loads the website on his host and does not display properly.  Of course I try to help the client from the first moment but he does not accept the help.  Without any logic the support of reason to the client. Another loss of hundreds of dollars and hours of work.

This is customer abuse and fiverr support is complicit in it.

  • Like 5
  • Sad 3
  • Up 1
  • Thanks 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

43 minutes ago, cesar4design said:

Despite the repercussion that this may have on my account, I don't want to remain silent, I can't take it anymore

Why would you heave any repercussions for speaking up? That’s not how fiverr works. 
 

44 minutes ago, cesar4design said:

buyers who request the cancellation of the order once it is finished or for reasons that have nothing to do with me

As for your cancellations: it looks like you need to change your workflow. Delivering websites is already a tricky business so you need to have bulletproof process for fiverr and for yourself. To avoid situations like first one you should divide it into milestones where client approves each step of the way and there is no way to cancel full order if they changed their mind about something. 
For the second order you need to have a delivery proof in your delivery, not only the link but preferably also pictures and video recording of the working website you created. And probably even added some FAQs to your gig on how to troubleshoot the problem or what clients should do in that case. But you also should see the situation from the clients part that they wouldn’t want to pay for the website that doesn’t work and they don’t know how to fix it, even if website works on your side it’s still useless for them. 
 

Change  your workflows to cover yourself each step of creation and delivery 

  • Like 9
  • Up 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, mariashtelle1 said:

Why would you heave any repercussions for speaking up? That’s not how fiverr works. 
 

As for your cancellations: it looks like you need to change your workflow. Delivering websites is already a tricky business so you need to have bulletproof process for fiverr and for yourself. To avoid situations like first one you should divide it into milestones where client approves each step of the way and there is no way to cancel full order if they changed their mind about something. 
For the second order you need to have a delivery proof in your delivery, not only the link but preferably also pictures and video recording of the working website you created. And probably even added some FAQs to your gig on how to troubleshoot the problem or what clients should do in that case. But you also should see the situation from the clients part that they wouldn’t want to pay for the website that doesn’t work and they don’t know how to fix it, even if website works on your side it’s still useless for them. 
 

Change  your workflows to cover yourself each step of creation and delivery 

Even with the order marked as shipped, marked as completed by the customer, and with a 5-star review.  Some time later the client simply opens a pointless dispute and the support automatically cancels the order, not even without asking me for information.  So no, what you say doesn't make sense.

  • Like 6
  • Sad 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

46 minutes ago, cesar4design said:

So no, what you say doesn't make sense.

It still does, because clients need to give a good reason for cancellation, fiverr support goes to your order page and checks the order and if you didn’t bulletproof your delivery as I described then fiverr support might cancel completed order if they see possible signs of client being right in their accusations 

  • Like 5
  • Up 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

The last thing Fiverr want is a cancelation. It's not just you losing money. Fiverr also does when they cancel an order. So when/if they do, support probably checked to ensure that the buyer has that right. 

I don't pretend to know the specifics of your case, so I can't comment on it further. 

A solution to this issue is using milestone orders and vetting your clients carefully before starting the work. 

As with any business, the risk of getting scammed is always there. It's not unique to Fiverr. 

Edited by smashradio
  • Like 8
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, mariashtelle1 said:

It still does, because clients need to give a good reason for cancellation, fiverr support goes to your order page and checks the order and if you didn’t bulletproof your delivery as I described then fiverr support might cancel completed order if they see possible signs of client being right in their accusations 

If the buyer has to 100% bullet proof his delivery to ensure Fiverr doesn't pick the client's side in a dispute (no matter how unjustified the cancellation reason) then something could be wrong with the way Fiverr CS handles disputes. Especially If the seller -as he says- provides after-delivery support as a token of goodwill to the client.
We shouldn't rule out the fact that some clients are simply either ignorant (ignoring instructions from the seller) or even malicious, trying to get their website for free.

  • Like 8
Link to comment
Share on other sites

49 minutes ago, smashradio said:

As with any business, the risk of getting scammed is always there. It's not unique to Fiverr. 

Okay, I understand that.  What I don't understand, and that's why my article, is that fiverr support siding with the scammer.

  • Like 5
Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 minutes ago, cesar4design said:

Okay, I understand that.  What I don't understand, and that's why my article, is that fiverr support siding with the scammer.

We can only know your side of the story here on the forum. For that reason, we can't know if the buyer had a legitimate reason to cancel the order, or if they scammed you. We can't know their side of the story, or why support opted for a cancelation. 

That's why these rants often falls on deaf ears around here. Because you say one thing, but we have no way to verify the truth of your claims. 

You claim support sided with a scammer. The buyer might claim they didn't receive what was agreed upon or that the quality of the work was poor. And how can we know who's right? 

All we can say is that Fiverr prefers to not cancel orders, because that costs the business money. So when they do, they usually have good reason and some evidence to back it up, even if you claim they don't. 

Edited by smashradio
  • Like 8
Link to comment
Share on other sites

46 minutes ago, newsmike said:

@mariashtelle1 @smashradio  Don't give solutions like milestones, that ruins the "Fiverr is unfair" rant. Not listening....

not listening stephen colbert GIF

 

Of course they don't listen.  As soon as the customer opens a dispute they cancel the order, even if marked completed and reviewed by the customer.  I don't even try to contact support.  Hundreds of messages last time, sending them screenshots of the chat where the client says that everything is fine, etc.  Nothing works, they turn a deaf ear and ignore the seller.  (I'm seller level 2, more than 100 orders and 10k$ of which fiver takes a large part) I don't even want to imagine the case they will make to the poor new sellers.  For them it is much easier to cancel the order even if it does not make sense, and avoid problems, discussions, etc.

  • Like 5
  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, smashradio said:

We can only know your side of the story here on the forum. For that reason, we can't know if the buyer had a legitimate reason to cancel the order, or if they scammed you. We can't know their side of the story, or why support opted for a cancelation. 

That's why the whole idea behind such a rant often falls on deaf ears around here. Because you say one thing, but we have no way to verify the truth of your claims. 

You claim support sided with a scammer. The buyer might claim they didn't receive what was agreed upon or that the quality of the work was poor. And how can we know who's right? 

All we can say is that Fiverr prefers to not cancel orders, because that costs the business money. So when they do, they usually have good reason and some evidence to back it up, even if you claim they don't. 

For something is the support right?  To listen to the faith version of both parties and make the right decision.  The problem is that instantly when the buyer opens the dispute, the support service cancels the order without asking me for any kind of explanation or anything.  Is that listening to both sides?  

  • Like 5
  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 minutes ago, cesar4design said:

Of course they don't listen.  As soon as the customer opens a dispute they cancel the order, even if marked completed and reviewed by the customer. 

I've had four or five buyers who tried to cancel on me via support. In three cases because I didn't want to work for free, and a fourth where the buyer was basically an ignoramus who thought he had ordered something entirely different from what I offer (the guy didn't know what a "voice-over" was). I opted to cancel that myself, and solved the problem. On the last one, support adviced me to cancel because of buyer abuse. 

In all cases, support sided with me. 

9 minutes ago, cesar4design said:

I don't even try to contact support. 

That's your choice. 

9 minutes ago, cesar4design said:

For them it is much easier to cancel the order even if it does not make sense, and avoid problems, discussions, etc.

No, it's not. For Fiverr Support, it's just as easy saying "no" if the terms on Fiverr support it. From what I can gather, their number one goal is to avoid cancelations. I've tried talking with support before about canceling orders (that I wanted to cancel) and they always make me jump through the hoops. "Have you spoken directly to your buyer about this to resolve the differences?" and so on. 

So no, in my experience, support doesn't automatically cancel the order based on no review at all. They don't favor the buyer and they don't cancel for no reason. 

7 minutes ago, cesar4design said:

For something is the support right?  To listen to the faith version of both parties and make the right decision.  The problem is that instantly when the buyer opens the dispute, the support service cancels the order without asking me for any kind of explanation or anything.  Is that listening to both sides?  

Fiverr doesn't need an explanation. They can look at the order page, history, messages and the delivery itself. The then look to see if the claims made by the buyer are accurate. I'm sure they can make mistakes sometimes or misunderstand what has happened, and I'm not saying Fiverr support is perfect in any way. But they don't just hit cancel at the first sign of trouble. Fiverr support not interviewing you about your side of the story does not mean that they cancel without reason. 

Edited by smashradio
  • Like 6
  • Haha 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Every time I've had problems with an order, the first thing I do is look at my gig description, FAQ's and all the details of my gig, and try and find ways to change things to prevent the problem happening again. And you really should look at using milestones as @mariashtelle1 suggested. For any order over a certain cost or duration needed to work on, this would be essential for me, to prevent problems like the ones you've experienced.

  • Like 7
  • Up 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

28 minutes ago, cesar4design said:

Of course they don't listen.  As soon as the customer opens a dispute they cancel the order, even if marked completed and reviewed by the customer.  I don't even try to contact support.  Hundreds of messages last time, sending them screenshots of the chat where the client says that everything is fine, etc.  Nothing works, they turn a deaf ear and ignore the seller.  (I'm seller level 2, more than 100 orders and 10k$ of which fiver takes a large part) I don't even want to imagine the case they will make to the poor new sellers.  For them it is much easier to cancel the order even if it does not make sense, and avoid problems, discussions, etc.

So you have it all figured out.

Fiverr is in business to lose money by cancelling orders. 

Fiverr takes a commission to pay employees and operating costs, how selfish. 

"As soon as the customer opens a dispute they cancel the order."  Even in the threads where buyers complain that they did not get their moneyback.

Billy Crystal Reaction GIF by MOODMAN

 

 

 

  • Like 7
Link to comment
Share on other sites

32 minutes ago, smashradio said:

I've had four or five buyers who tried to cancel on me via support. In three cases because I didn't want to work for free, and a fourth where the buyer was basically an ignoramus who thought he had ordered something entirely different from what I offer (the guy didn't know what a "voice-over" was). I opted to cancel that myself, and solved the problem. On the last one, support adviced me to cancel because of buyer abuse. 

In all cases, support sided with me. 

That's your choice. 

No, it's not. For Fiverr Support, it's just as easy saying "no" if the terms on Fiverr support it. From what I can gather, their number one goal is to avoid cancelations. I've tried talking with support before about canceling orders (that I wanted to cancel) and they always make me jump through the hoops. "Have you spoken directly to your buyer about this to resolve the differences?" and so on. 

So no, in my experience, support doesn't automatically cancel the order based on no review at all. They don't favor the buyer and they don't cancel for no reason. 

Fiverr doesn't need an explanation. They can look at the order page, history, messages and the delivery itself. The then look to see if the claims made by the buyer are accurate. I'm sure they can make mistakes sometimes or misunderstand what has happened, and I'm not saying Fiverr support is perfect in any way. But they don't just hit cancel at the first sign of trouble. Fiverr support not interviewing you about your side of the story does not mean that they cancel without reason. 

Save your breath Leo, facts don't matter. This is 100% pity party. 

  • Like 7
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I would have to agree with this guy. I did some art for someone recently and they said they wanted some clouds and a sky painted. so I did that. they put in a dispute saying that I didn't add a logo or text of any kind to the art even though there was no record of them or me mentioning anything about that. like ZERO. of course they got their money back. I found a way to combat buyers not paying for their stuff is to post it online in my own portfolio as soon as the refund happens, that way if the buyer does steal the work and post it anywhere online and I find out, I can put in a copyright dispute and that gets the work taken down and if they repost it too many times and too many disputes go through they are taken down from that particular platform. I had a guy steal my art and posted it on Spotify, Instagram and Facebook before and his own website. getting stuff taken down from a personal website is harder because you have to go through and find their host etc. But at the end of the day, we are still losing out on money and time.

The Best way to go about it is to break large gigs into smaller ones and doing everything piece by piece. That way you get to see if the buyer is a douchebag and if they are you don't lose out on too much, plus you also get multiple reviews and gigs under your belt if things go well. 

  • Like 5
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 6 months later...

My story is different. The buyer asks for revisions after my delivery (including what I promised).  I talked to Fiverr support service. They said "There is nothing we can do about a buyer who asks limitless revisions even if you deliver the right things"
Let's have look:
I spend time or money to deliver
The buyer gets what she/he wants
I'm not paid

Edited by mikesubito
  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 7/15/2022 at 5:09 PM, cesar4design said:

Okay, I understand that.  What I don't understand, and that's why my article, is that fiverr support siding with the scammer.

The first instance should be easy enough to correct and for Fiverr to remunerate you the lost funds; I am sure they would if you present your case well and have not already written to Customer Support in any kind of inflammatory way. If it's true that the client is the one who asked to delay delivery, all you need to do is screenshot the relevant messages from the client and write a clear, unemotional, message to CS. Include the screenshots since they either cannot or sometimes choose not to read all the communications.

Attachments make it easier for a support representative to immediately grasp your own complaint. 

I feel (though I have no cancellation experience as no one has cancelled yet--but I do have extensive Fiverr CS general experience) that in some cases, CS will cancel a job to please a client who may go on to buy other services, since they don't want to lose them.

This may be more likely if the CS person doesn't understand the product or service you sell since it would be difficult for them to check if they do not have the relevant expertise. To some degree, they may have to take the client's word for it especially now Fiverr makes a promise to 'refund if you aren't happy'! They don't even say 'if the job is not carried out to the specification'. It sounds as though Fiverr is now inviting clients to say, 'you promised me my money back if I'm unhappy, and I'm not happy... so where's my refund?'

I'd imagine CS, in the first instance,  would expect you to contact them to present your side after the cancellation, and they might well reimburse you (compensation, they call it) for lost revenue if you can show the client was wrong.

The key in writing to support is to be brief, to the point, and focus on facts supported by visual evidence. The style of your writing when you describe the complaint here in the forum is clear so I'd imagine you have a great chance of being paid for that first job if you have the evidence and take time to set out the case with screenshots and dates.

One question I have, however, is how did you manage to be 'late'--did you let the prior agreed timing expire, and he did not accept an extension ('while waiting for the client to respond')? I cannot imagine you did that as it would immediately give you a late marker.

To deliver a job later than originally planned would need a mutual extension, wouldn't it? So it should be impossible to 'deliver late' because if the buyer did not agree to the extension request, you'd only need to contact Customer Support and put them on notice that the client wanted an extension/delay but has grown non-responsive, and now you are unsure what to do since a deadline is looming.

The second project's issue is more complex but if this were me, I'd protect myself against it in future purely by ensuring I had a good chat (in writing) with each buyer before the job even begins, making it a requirement that no one must upload to their host without your support and guidance at the time to avoid technical issues. If they agree that in writing yet still plough ahead and do it, thereby getting in a mess, you may have more success with Customer Support. I presume this could even be in the job requirements.

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Please sign in to comment

You will be able to leave a comment after signing in



Sign In Now
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...