The insights feature has officially launched. (probably)

[williambryan392]

I just hope sellers don't try to take advantage through price gouging, or treating buyers better/worse because they do/don't tip etc. It should be a tool used for positive ends (look at me getting righteous!). 

With great power comes great responsibility 😉

[animie_video]

@williambryan392that's so true, but do you think as sellers we would be able to do that? 
Everyone loves to have some extra money 😄, no? 

[williambryan392]

3 minutes ago, animie_video said:

but do you think as sellers we would be able to do that? 

Perhaps, perhaps not.... if I saw a buyer that had made large purchases I may be tempted to upsell them things that they don't really need because they have the budget, or offer extra value that I wouldn't normally offer. Maybe this in itself isn't bad (I'm really not sure), but I feel that you should treat every customer equally and offer the same value regardless of spending power.

6 minutes ago, animie_video said:

Everyone loves to have some extra money 😄, no? 

One million percent. 

[animie_video]

@frank_d was right, Pakistan is in the list and the event is going to be held on 3 June, I just registered myself and excited for that

[frank_d]

52 minutes ago, animie_video said:

@frank_d was right, Pakistan is in the list and the event is going to be held on 3 June, I just registered myself and excited for that

This is a rare occurrence of people saying I was right about something. 🙂

I am going to write a topic about how to best utilize the buyer insights, as it feels like people are itching to misuse this new powerful feature.

Edited May 27, 2022 by frank_d
Edited for clarity

[animie_video]

Haha, I am glad to be a part of some rare creature on this platform. 
I hope I'll be able to read that topic before I attend the event, so I can do justice to myself by utilizing it. 

[frank_d]

10 minutes ago, animie_video said:

Haha, I am glad to be a part of some rare creature on this platform. 
I hope I'll be able to read that topic before I attend the event, so I can do justice to myself by utilizing it. 

I meant the buyer insights feature, not the events/clubs one.

[williambryan392]

8 minutes ago, frank_d said:

I meant the buyer insights feature, not the events/clubs one.

Ah man you know we're going to need one for this too probably 😂

[visualstudios]

14 hours ago, williambryan392 said:

but I feel that you should treat every customer equally and offer the same value regardless of spending power.

What do you mean by this? Shouldn't value be pegged to cost in some way? I think I should offer more value for a higher price, otherwise that's pretty much ripping off those who pay the most, which I think was the opposite of your point. 

[williambryan392]

6 hours ago, visualstudios said:

Shouldn't value be pegged to cost in some way?

Of course! This comment was related to 'spending power' not actual 'spend'. If a buyer spends more they should get more.

My point is that if I see the buyer makes large purchases that doesn't mean I should try to charge them more for the same value I would normally give at a lower rate.

 

[vickieito]

21 hours ago, frank_d said:

it feels like people are itching to misuse this new powerful feature.

Hi @frank_d ...Did my post trigger that comment?

Edited May 28, 2022 by vickieito

[visualstudios]

1 hour ago, williambryan392 said:

My point is that if I see the buyer makes large purchases that doesn't mean I should try to charge them more for the same value I would normally give at a lower rate.

That can be tricky when pricing for value, though. The same product will provide different value for different people, and one of the factors to take into account when calculating that is how valuable time is for the client, for example. So if I see a buyer paying X for something that I know would take them 1 hour to produce (even if not directly, say they take an hour to find the right vendor), and another paying 2X, it may just be the case that the second buyer's hour is worth twice as much. So yes, in a sense you should charge people more if they spend more, because they've showed you what they price their time / services they're getting at (even if indirectly). It's not an all or nothing thing, of course, but it's great information to have in terms of pricing strategy. In a way it acts like a price anchor of sorts, which is always present in a negotiation in one way or the other. This is not ripping anyone off, by the way - the value of the same product is what changes according to who you are providing it to. So you're charging more because it's actually worth more to them, value is always subjective.

To be noted that pricing for value works much better for creative, personalised work - you can easily charge a millionaire 10 times more then a random joe for a portrait of them, for instance, but you would be hard pressed to charge them 10 times more for the same bottle of water, the same book or the same cinema ticket.

Edited May 28, 2022 by visualstudios

[williambryan392]

5 minutes ago, visualstudios said:

pricing strategy

I see your point. It's tricky. Definitley not binary, yes or no, right or wrong. I'm conflicted, and the below is also conflicted.

6 minutes ago, visualstudios said:

how valuable time is for the client

You can definitely charge more for fast delivery! You're providing more value. But just charging a wealthier person more for the same service just because they are wealthy doesn't seem right. Maybe if you also offer massive discounts to low spenders then it is ok.

7 minutes ago, visualstudios said:

same product will provide different value for different people

True, and this is classic supply and demand.

This isn't a great example, but if a restaurant charged me more because I was particularly keen to eat there, or just because they thought I was wealthier and could afford it then I don't think that's cool. It's the same meal. Or if I was really thirsty, should I pay more for a drink than the person next to me who is only slightly thirsty. Why should I be charged more? Sure, if there's a queue and I get to skip it, then I pay for that privilege. But just because I want it more (and supply isn't limited), I wonder if that's a bit... wrong (for want of a better word).

Classic example is taxi drivers charging tourists more.

[visualstudios]

19 minutes ago, williambryan392 said:

You can definitely charge more for fast delivery!

Yes, but that's not what I mean by time in this context. What I mean is that having a certain task completed, even if you outsource it, costs you time. You need to find the right vendor. If he's not good, you are risking getting something you can't use, waste the time you spent placing that order and communicating your needs, and having to waste more time on top of that to get what you need. So, the higher your time is valued, the bigger risk you are running. So you should be prepared to pay more for risk management. Someone who values their time at $100 an hour, should be prepared to pay quite a bit more for something they want and takes them an hour to outsource (if it's guaranteed to fulfil their needs), than someone who values their time at $10 an hour - even if that "something" is exactly the same. Because even if the price of the service is 0, since they both took an hour of their time to get it done, the first guy is already spending $100, whereas the second is only spending $10. Insurance on $100 is more expensive than insurance on $10.

Edited May 28, 2022 by visualstudios

[visualstudios]

17 minutes ago, williambryan392 said:

but if a restaurant charged me more because I was particularly keen to eat there, or just because they thought I was wealthier and could afford it then I don't think that's cool. It's the same meal. Or if I was really thirsty, should I pay more for a drink than the person next to me who is only slightly thirsty. Why should I be charged more?

And this is why this pricing strategy applies specially for custom, creative work, since the outcome is much more unpredictable, risky and subjective in value. A bottle of water is a bottle of water. The same meal is the same meal at a restaurant, usually. It's mass produced, in a sense. The risk is lower, so insurance is lower.

[williambryan392]

4 minutes ago, visualstudios said:

Yes, but that's not what I mean by time in this context.

I know it wasn't 🙂 

4 minutes ago, visualstudios said:

should be prepared to pay quite a bit more for something they want

I understand your point, and sure, perhaps they should. But this should be up to the buyer, not the seller IMO.

 

[visualstudios]

Just now, williambryan392 said:

But this should be up to the buyer, not the seller IMO.

It's always up to the buyer how much they are willing to pay. 

[williambryan392]

So, this is turning into a bigger conversation, but in short a quick question / hyerthetical @visualstudios:

You get 2 identical custom work requests. Identical in every way.

One from someone who you see spends high amounts, and one who you see spends low amounts.

Do you charge them a different price for the same work?

(I have done this, but I have done it by lowering my price for people that couldn't afford it, rather than increase it for those that could pay more)

[visualstudios]

That's just one indicator, it's not the entire thing. To be honest I'm much more inclined to just use this feature to instantly know what to engage and not to engage, than to just up prices. I think it's much more useful to not waste time with people under budget than the other way around. Unfortunately, from what I've seen, the "spent per gig" info is capped at $100+, which gives me no information to "upsell" at all, since all my gigs start above that price. So, even if I wanted to, I really couldn't use it to just match the prices the buyers are spending.

However, it's useful information if I can see a buyer bought 10 gigs in my category for the average price of $10 previously. That is highly unlikely to be a client I'd want.

Edited May 28, 2022 by visualstudios

[williambryan392]

1 hour ago, vickieito said:

Did my post trigger that comment?

For what it's worth @vickieito, I think every case is different. I took a look at your profile, and you clearly provide great value and have very happy buyers at a very competitive (perhaps even too competitive!) price point. So in my mind, you seeing if you could charge more was more of a test to see if you could get fair market value for your services, ahead of potentially increasing your prices overall for what you offer. I think you're a professional and certainly not a shark.

My comment was not in response to your example, just bad timing, and a generalised comment re using the feature for positive ends.

Edited May 28, 2022 by williambryan392

[williambryan392]

2 minutes ago, visualstudios said:

'm much more inclined to just use this feature to instantly know what to engage and not to engage, than to just up prices

100%, we are on the same page. It's an indicator.

[fiveroptic1]

11 hours ago, visualstudios said:

I think it's much more useful to not waste time with people under budget than the other way around

Indeed!
Personally, I live by the maxim on 5r that I never charge more than I would do than if a buyer has gone directly to my gig and ordered. So that's my conscience covered! 
But I agree, Buyer insights definitely save time when conversing with a potential buyer who patently never has and, more importantly, never will pay what your standard charges are. It saves a lot of back and forth time wasting and 'doing the dance'.  Definitely gives a strong indication, at a glance, if a buyer is just fishing or is a serious prospect.  

[frank_d]

Update: I found where buyers have to go to opt out:

Click on your profile photo on the top right of your dashboard, then click on “view profile” and scroll all the way to the bottom.

 

[moikchap]

Where do I find that section? (Or is this just for Business buyers?)

 

[Edit: Nevermind, I found it. It's at the bottom of the Profile page. I was checking the different tabs in Settings.]

Edited May 31, 2022 by moikchap

[miiila]

I can definitely see this helping sellers to save a lot of time and nerves, both for themselves and enquiring persons, as well, so, ultimately, it should be beneficial for both sides.