Fiverr Suspends Business in Russia

[adsensewizard]

I agree that hampering Russians from freelancing online will benefit the Russian government more, when Fiverr and other online marketplaces ban Russian sellers. They will have to start looking for an offline job instead. I imagine they are paying soldiers extra as well currently, so many could join the military even instead of being jobless.

Edited March 21, 2022 by adsensewizard

[surajkartha]

1 hour ago, gajuseidi said:

Putin also calls his invasion of an independent sovereign country a "special operation", spreads massive amounts of propaganda on national TV, calls Ukrainian government a bunch of n*zis while his troops are marching on Ukrainian soil plastered with "Z" symbols and shelling civilian targets. He is also rapidly implementing laws in his country which prohibit Russian citizens from freely expressing their mind and criticize their government. I hope you are smarter than to believe anything Putin says.

This is war, people will suffer and they will suffer massively, unfortunately. If you're the expert on foreign affairs and diplomatic solutions, please tell us, what has to be done, so the efforts don't seem to be "minimal".

So far, it has not been the approach. We're on the verge of a nuclear war and world leaders are doing everything to avoid escalation.

I commend every Russian brave enough to oppose their government and protest against the war. I have nothing but respect for those people as they are risking their freedom to speak their mind.

It has always been the case in autocratic governments. The kleptocrats are filling their pockets at the expense of the populace. I can only hope there will be serious changes in Russian government.

I understand. It is not my goal to aggravate the situation further, but rather rationalize the decision made by Fiverr. None of us know the full truth behind this decision, the best we can do is have an informed opinion about it. I really do hope this war ends soon and all Russian freelancers can get back working on the platform.

Most regular open-minded people know this. In terms of politics, though, Putin and his oligarch friends is Russia, unfortunately.

I don't know what you are trying to achieve with these posts but I would neither justify the war nor the sanctions.. because I am sure none of us here are "experts" when it comes to foreign affairs.. the least I can do is be sensitive to all those who are impacted by this... because people of both sides are at loss, one more so because of the death and devastation.. 🙏

[rohit_korim]

It has always been the case in autocratic governments.  

[gajuseidi]

On 3/21/2022 at 4:19 PM, surajkartha said:

I don't know what you are trying to achieve with these posts but I would neither justify the war nor the sanctions.. because I am sure none of us here are "experts" when it comes to foreign affairs.. the least I can do is be sensitive to all those who are impacted by this... because people of both sides are at loss, one more so because of the death and devastation.. 🙏

My goal with these posts is to have a discussion about a topic that is deeply important to me and to every Lithuanian and hopefully offer a different perspective.

Sanctions are very complicated political and economical tools. Saying that they do not seem to work because you heard Russian "president" say so is ridiculous. Sanctions can be very costly to the entity enforcing them, and if Fiverr enforced these sanctions, they have an important reason to do so.

Russian population is suffering and it seems that it will get worse, especially if this war evolves into a cold war. I will repeat, sanctions are one of the few ways to interfere with the invasion without causing escalation and many huge businesses have already acted on it despite the potential losses they may incur. 

It's by no means a perfect tool, but it's the tool we have at the moment. I would love this conflict to end without more human suffering, but any sane person can look at the situation and realize it is not going to happen.

Russians who direct their anger towards Fiverr, or Ikea, or any other business enforcing sanctions on their country should really think if they're directing their anger towards the right entity.

It's an unfortunate situation for Russian citizens, but not as unfortunate as for Ukrainian citizens who either died, lost their homes or had to flee their country in fear of not waking up the next time they close their eyes.

[bradmitzelfelt]

On 3/20/2022 at 6:17 AM, gajuseidi said:

Fiverr doesn't, you do. And you pay taxes from the income Fiverr provides.

In Russia, Freelancers don't pay taxes on their money. Even if they did, only an idiot would think that kicking them out of Fiverr would do anything. They still have to pay bills and feed families. They're either going to get other jobs or be forced to join the military, which actually helps Putin more. If anything, keeping Fiverr active is a hindrance to Putin getting money from Freelancers.

This is nothing but virtue signaling and blaming the average person for the actions of their government.

[webdesignwp202]

War can give nothing but destruction. The pain of losing a relative is very painful. Everyone is opposing it from their respective positions.

The suffering of the common people for this war is increasing day by day. There is nothing wrong with ordinary people. Like us, they never want war.
There is no fault of common people here. Many will suffer more for this.

World leaders are responsible for today's situation. No ordinary man is responsible. But ordinary people are getting its punishment.

#Stop_War

[surajkartha]

3 hours ago, gajuseidi said:

You've shown multiple times that you are ill-informed about the situation, yet you comment on it like you aren't.

Sorry you feel that way... 

[bradmitzelfelt]

3 hours ago, gajuseidi said:

Russians who direct their anger towards Fiverr, or Ikea, or any other business enforcing sanctions on their country should really think if they're directing their anger towards the right entity.

You really want them to get themselves killed standing against Putin as has already happened eh? Maybe if they're lucky it'll be the gulag? You haven't thought this through, at all.

[gajuseidi]

3 hours ago, bradmitzelfelt said:

In Russia, Freelancers don't pay taxes on their money.

It's interesting seeing how all of the sudden not a single Russian freelancer is apparently paying taxes in this forum. However, on Quora Russian freelancers are helping each other calculate and pay their taxes.

16 minutes ago, bradmitzelfelt said:

You really want them to get themselves killed standing against Putin as has already happened eh? Maybe if they're lucky it'll be the gulag? You haven't thought this through, at all.

My grandfather amongst thousands of Lithuanians was exiled to Syberia during the Soviet era, where he used to use garlic instead of a toothbrush. I know that the freedom I have today required a lot of suffering and pain of my people and I understand it very well.

There are thousands of brave Russians who are fighting for peace even though they might face severe consequences. There are thousands of Ukrainians who are standing unarmed in front of Russian tanks shouting for them to go home. They understand how important their role is and they take responsibility for themselves and their country. If you think that complaining about your lost privilege to use Fiverr is the most you can do in your situation, you do you.

[milolikespurple]

1 hour ago, gajuseidi said:

It's interesting seeing how all of the sudden not a single Russian freelancer is apparently paying taxes in this forum. However, on Quora Russian freelancers are helping each other calculate and pay their taxes.

That doesn't mean anything though.
Of course you'll only see those freelancers, who ask questions about their taxes, because the ones, who don't pay them won't ask any questions regarding the taxes anywhere.

And the only ones who ask these questions and calculate their taxes are those, who registered sole proprietorship(?) individual enterpreneurship(?) (i dunno how to properly translate it, sry), because their income is > 200000 rubles/month - its a minority of freelancers; 100000+/month is considered to be a very good paycheck, that you might stop on (mostly because you don't wanna deal with all that paperwork and everything), especially if you don't live in Moscow or St. Petersburg
 

[kholland65]

On 3/20/2022 at 7:17 AM, gajuseidi said:

Let me offer you some perspective. 115 children have been killed, 140 have been injured since the start of the invasion. Overall, 636 civilians have been killed, 1125 have been injured and over 3 million have fled their country as of 15th of March according to Kyiv Independent. These are only the recorded numbers, the real number is bound to be higher. Fiverr amongst other businesses took a stand and made a decision to not contribute to those numbers. It doesn't matter how much you pay in taxes, the fact that you do is enough.

I understand your point. I don't know enough about tax laws in Russia so I cannot comment on the percentage of taxes a freelancer has to pay in your country, but what I do know is that everyone has to pay taxes. If you avoid paying taxes, that doesn't mean that every Russian freelancer does the same. Your personal decision to avoid paying taxes is not an excuse for Fiverr to continue indirectly contributing to Russia's invasion of a sovereign country and slaughtering its people.

Fiverr doesn't, you do. And you pay taxes from the income Fiverr provides.

I'm sorry but everything you've said is completely wrong and shrouded in emotional platitudes. You cannot just treat innocent people poorly because you think by proxy it will get back at their government. The logic is ridiculous to say the least not to mention it's a completely ineffective strategy. This war cost nothing for putin and companies cutting ties with russia is not going to do anything but make putin more powerful. India and china are already filling the void let behind by wester countries. People like you just live in this idealistic world where things don't actually work the way they real world. You cannot stop russian people from having to pay taxes and have a functioning economy unless you want to starve everyone who lives there, so targeting every day services as some attempt to get putin is dumb and will have zero effect. It will be about as effective as covid lockdowns that literally did nothing but harm people for 0 benefit. This is the same way. People from all over the world are going to lose lots of money, and russian people will become even more dependent on their government. This move is extremely short sighted and indidicative of people with low IQ's and who make emotional decisions, not rational ones. Now please save your selective outrage from someone and some place else. 

[kholland65]

On 3/20/2022 at 9:34 AM, donnovan86 said:

I get that you are unhappy man, but it's not like Fiverr is the only business that's doing this. Newsflash, most businesses are bringing sanctions against Russia. In fact, UpWork actually stepped away from Russia before Fiverr, so I am sure Fiverr just followed suit. 

Yeah and everyone one of them is short sighted and wrong. Most corporations are run by virtue signally idiots who just want want woke points from their twitter followers but don't actually poses any ability to think rationally. 

Just because someone does something bad, doesn't mean everyone should just follow suit so they can jump on the bandwagon. I guess if another country commits human rights violations, then we should all do it because others are doing it too, so it's ok. Maybe if a company decides that only people of a certain ethnicity can do business, we should be ok with that as long as more than one company does it. I mean who knew the only metric for determining if something was right or wrong was if others are also doing it. 

[milolikespurple]

8 hours ago, gajuseidi said:

Sanctions are very complicated political and economical tools. Saying that they do not seem to work because you heard Russian "president" say so is ridiculous. Sanctions can be very costly to the entity enforcing them, and if Fiverr enforced these sanctions, they have an important reason to do so.

Fiverr has important reasons, tho they might differ from what you think.
There are huge fines for violating sanction regime, and many of Fiverr's offices are located in the coutries, that enforce sanctions against Russia.
So even if we count the money they're donating to Ukraine, i think it very well could've costed them more, if they didn't suspend their business in Russia.

I just think that, if you come from the position of letting less money flow into funding the russian army, then restricting russian citizens and not letting them to sell in fiverr is counterproductive.

3 hours ago, gajuseidi said:

There are thousands of brave Russians who are fighting for peace even though they might face severe consequences. There are thousands of Ukrainians who are standing unarmed in front of Russian tanks shouting for them to go home. They understand how important their role is and they take responsibility for themselves and their country. If you think that complaining about your lost privilege to use Fiverr is the most you can do in your situation, you do you.

I don't think that there's anything that can be done to somehow stop the current regime if you're a regular Russian citizen, its pretty much impossible to do anything against the powerful supression system, that Putin built. The only thing you can do is somehow continiue to sustain yourself during crisis and prepare for the times, that are ahead. And depriving russians from their means of sustaining themselves is kinda interfering with that.

Edited March 22, 2022 by milolikespurple

[donnovan86]

4 hours ago, kholland65 said:

You cannot just treat innocent people poorly because you think by proxy it will get back at their government.

You also can't start a war against them, but you also can't do nothing.

Sanctions would be the only logical thing to do if you want to take action but also not go too far. 

Hopefully this war ends soon and it will all be well behind us. As for Fiverr's decision... UpWork did it first, so one of the major names in the industry already retracted from Russia, Fiverr just followed suit.

[blindsightmix]

2 hours ago, donnovan86 said:

Hopefully this war ends soon and it will all be well behind us. As for Fiverr's decision... UpWork did it first, so one of the major names in the industry already retracted from Russia, Fiverr just followed suit.

Yeah, it's true but some other companies did it in a very respective way to thier contributors. For example, let's take only online platforms - Youtube, they paused all monetization from videos in Russia but the Russian content creators are not banned or suspended, they keep posting videos and create content and if the videos are shown outside of the Russia, those videos are monetized as usual (as far as I know). Another very popular online streaming platform - Twitch. Not a single Russian twitch streamer was banned or suspended, instead they temporarily disabled the earnings withdrawal but you can still subscribe to Russian channels and watch thier streams during these days.

 

So not all companies treated this situation the same way. Most of them respect their long-time partners and found the respectful solution. At least I'm thankful to Fiverr that they let me finish active orders and withdraw the earnings. But as you know, now there is zero sellers and buyers from Russia. Sadly all Russian citizens had been wiped out from online presents on Fiverr 🙁 And I can only wish that the war stops as soon as possible and everything goes back to normal, that is the most important thing, indeed.

[donnichols]

10 hours ago, gajuseidi said:

It's interesting seeing how all of the sudden not a single Russian freelancer is apparently paying taxes in this forum. However, on Quora Russian freelancers are helping each other calculate and pay their taxes.

I personally paid them but generally it works the way @milolikespurple described: unless you've crossed a certain income threshold which is enough for living in a regular town, basically you are safe. If the government wants to hurt you, they can always find other reasons worse than unpaid taxes.

[sarahkhan97]

literally the whole 'topic' went somewhere --- from the 'main issue''...

[bradmitzelfelt]

19 hours ago, gajuseidi said:

It's interesting seeing how all of the sudden not a single Russian freelancer is apparently paying taxes in this forum. However, on Quora Russian freelancers are helping each other calculate and pay their taxes.

My grandfather amongst thousands of Lithuanians was exiled to Syberia during the Soviet era, where he used to use garlic instead of a toothbrush. I know that the freedom I have today required a lot of suffering and pain of my people and I understand it very well.

There are thousands of brave Russians who are fighting for peace even though they might face severe consequences. There are thousands of Ukrainians who are standing unarmed in front of Russian tanks shouting for them to go home. They understand how important their role is and they take responsibility for themselves and their country. If you think that complaining about your lost privilege to use Fiverr is the most you can do in your situation, you do you.

Ukrainians are also castrating captured Russians, sewing dead Chechens into pig carcasses, branding captured soldiers, beating people in the streets for having contact with Russians or stealing a loaf of bread. Should we sanction Ukraine for their war crimes? Or do we only sanction one side because "omg it's Putin!" Do you think Putin is the only evil in the world? Zelazny (or however you spell his name) just outlawed opposition to his rule (he's now effectively a dictator). But you honestly think that a country with a history of killing MILLIONS of its citizens is going to balk because Fiverr blocked its citizens from making money? Idiocy.

[gajuseidi]

On 3/22/2022 at 6:19 AM, kholland65 said:

I'm sorry but everything you've said is completely wrong and shrouded in emotional platitudes. You cannot just treat innocent people poorly because you think by proxy it will get back at their government. The logic is ridiculous to say the least not to mention it's a completely ineffective strategy. This war cost nothing for putin and companies cutting ties with russia is not going to do anything but make putin more powerful. India and china are already filling the void let behind by wester countries. People like you just live in this idealistic world where things don't actually work the way they real world. You cannot stop russian people from having to pay taxes and have a functioning economy unless you want to starve everyone who lives there, so targeting every day services as some attempt to get putin is dumb and will have zero effect. It will be about as effective as covid lockdowns that literally did nothing but harm people for 0 benefit. This is the same way. People from all over the world are going to lose lots of money, and russian people will become even more dependent on their government. This move is extremely short sighted and indidicative of people with low IQ's and who make emotional decisions, not rational ones. Now please save your selective outrage from someone and some place else. 

No one here is having an outrage, *******  post is full of confident statements without any substantial follow-ups or arguments whatsoever. I'm going to leave it there.

On 3/22/2022 at 1:29 PM, blindsightmix said:

Yeah, it's true but some other companies did it in a very respective way to thier contributors. For example, let's take only online platforms - Youtube, they paused all monetization from videos in Russia but the Russian content creators are not banned or suspended, they keep posting videos and create content and if the videos are shown outside of the Russia, those videos are monetized as usual (as far as I know). Another very popular online streaming platform - Twitch. Not a single Russian twitch streamer was banned or suspended, instead they temporarily disabled the earnings withdrawal but you can still subscribe to Russian channels and watch thier streams during these days.

I see your point. However, I would like to point out that Twitch and Youtube are very different to Fiverr. They belong in the internet video hosting and video livestreaming industries respectively, while Fiverr is an online freelance service provider. On Fiverr, every order is monetized, while on Twitch and Youtube it is not the case for every stream and video. For example, it is estimated that only 0.25% of channels on Youtube are actually monetized.

On 3/22/2022 at 1:55 PM, donnichols said:

I personally paid them but generally it works the way @milolikespurple described: unless you've crossed a certain income threshold which is enough for living in a regular town, basically you are safe. If the government wants to hurt you, they can always find other reasons worse than unpaid taxes.

I accept the fact that Russian freelancers pay less taxes than regular Russian workers or in many cases generally avoid paying taxes. I have looked into it and it seems to be true. In Lithuania I pay less taxes while freelancing than working a regular job as well.

However, it seems clear to me that these sanctions were enforced to have an economical impact as well as disassociate Fiverr from Russia's invasion of an independent sovereign country. They clearly made a decision to stand with Ukraine as most rest of the world also did.

On 3/21/2022 at 11:16 PM, bradmitzelfelt said:

This is nothing but virtue signaling and blaming the average person for the actions of their government.

I will not accept that these sanctions were enforced for the sole purpose of virtue signaling. Anyone who has at least some understanding of the concept of sanctions will know that this decision can be very costly for Fiverr itself and such decisions are not made easily.

On 3/22/2022 at 10:56 PM, bradmitzelfelt said:

Ukrainians are also sewing dead Chechens into pig carcasses

It is a common tactic in war to use dead bodies to deter and demoralize the opposing force. Ukrainians are not even the most creative nation in this matter.

On 3/22/2022 at 10:56 PM, bradmitzelfelt said:

Ukrainians are also beating people in the streets for having contact with Russians

My best guess would be that you're probably talking about Russian separatists and saboteurs without even knowing it.

On 3/22/2022 at 10:56 PM, bradmitzelfelt said:

Ukrainians are also beating people in the streets for stealing a loaf of bread

That's incorrect. What they do is they tie them up to street signs in freezing cold to make an example out of them. You see, it would not be very helpful for Ukrainian populace if everyone took advantage of an ongoing war and started looting. But what do I know, you probably live there and know what's best for them.

On 3/22/2022 at 10:56 PM, bradmitzelfelt said:

Should we sanction Ukraine for their war crimes?

By saying "we", who are you referring to, exactly?

On 3/22/2022 at 10:56 PM, bradmitzelfelt said:

Or do we only sanction one side because "omg it's Putin!"

Exactly right. You answered your own question. 🤷‍♂️

On 3/22/2022 at 10:56 PM, bradmitzelfelt said:

Do you think Putin is the only evil in the world? Zelazny (or however you spell his name) just outlawed opposition to his rule (he's now effectively a dictator). But you honestly think that a country with a history of killing MILLIONS of its citizens is going to balk because Fiverr blocked its citizens from making money? Idiocy.

You know, when most people from outside of Russia think of Russia, they think *****.*********.

[logaritym]

A lot of people here are barely hiding their delight in punishing innocent Russians, just so that they can feel they are doing something good for the world without actually doing anything meaningful.

[catwriter]

17 hours ago, bradmitzelfelt said:

Zelazny (or however you spell his name)

If you're referring to the Ukrainian president, it's Zelensky.

Zelazny was an American poet and writer of fantasy and science fiction who died in 1995. and has nothing to do with this situation.

[tahiriqbalnajam]

Blood spilling is heart wrenching. These are the horrors of modern times. I am proud to see that We, as a community, are standing united with Ukraine. Hoping against hope, Let's pray that Russia will stop this madness now. 

[bradmitzelfelt]

3 hours ago, catwriter said:

If you're referring to the Ukrainian president, it's Zelensky.

Zelazny was an American poet and writer of fantasy and science fiction who died in 1995. and has nothing to do with this situation.

I would say it's pretty obvious I meant the President of Ukraine, not a dead writer (an excellent writer, for the record, whom everyone should check out).

[bradmitzelfelt]

2 hours ago, tahiriqbalnajam said:

Blood spilling is heart wrenching. These are the horrors of modern times. I am proud to see that We, as a community, are standing united with Ukraine. Hoping against hope, Let's pray that Russia will stop this madness now. 

A lot of people, myself included, aren't standing with either side because they're both terrible.

I stand with the good, honest citizens on both sides, however, who just want to live their lives without being screwed by their governments.

[catwriter]

1 hour ago, bradmitzelfelt said:

I would say it's pretty obvious I meant the President of Ukraine, not a dead writer (an excellent writer, for the record, whom everyone should check out).

It is, I've just corrected your spelling and used the opportunity to mention Zelazny (and we agree, he's really an excellent writer).