DEAR LEVEL 2 (Demotion)

[words_to_wow]

Dear Level 2,

It has been such a joy to know and represent you. However, unfortunately, we must soon part ways for awhile. Although we worked so hard together, disappointment holds no prejudice against any seller. As you may recall, the buyer we did that project for this week decided to cancel their order in the middle of a revision, and then block us--all after not responding to our questions regarding their revision request. And weeks before that incident, we agreed to a cancellation with a buyer who did not know what they wanted and was really not worth the stress for $72. And we do not offer unlimited revisions, so there's that...So, now with our Order Completion rate at 89%, we are facing a demotion. 

Yes, I know you suggested that I just get more orders, but it's been a bit slow this week. I'm sorry I let you down, Level 2. 

Until we meet again,

words_to_wow

[mariashtelle1]

4 minutes ago, words_to_wow said:

we agreed to a cancellation with a buyer who did not know what they wanted and was really not worth the stress for $72. And we do not offer unlimited revisions, so there's that.

Next time just ask support you cancel orders like this 

[words_to_wow]

Why? So the buyer could still get their way by saying that they were unsatisfied just to get a refund. I am now "hip to the game" and the buyer clearly gets the final say, especially "important" buyers. 

[mariashtelle1]

38 minutes ago, words_to_wow said:

Why? So the buyer could still get their way by saying that they were unsatisfied just to get a refund.

But you gave a refund anyway by cancelling order, no? 
So you would’ve been better reaching out to support and asking them to cancel without affecting your stats because buyer order wrong option. 
 

[vickiespencer]

42 minutes ago, words_to_wow said:

and the buyer clearly gets the final say,

That is not always true. I cancel every order through CS instead of the resolution center. That way if it is not my fault then my stats are not affected. If the order gets canceled by the buyer, I still contact CS in hopes of saving my stats. 
 

[vickiespencer]

Our friend @newsmikeposted this on another thread. He said very few buyers press the issue once he sends them this QR. It may be helpful for you in the future.

 When you joined Fiverr, you agreed to their terms of service (TOS), and this document makes it very clear why this order is not eligible for cancellation. It states, "Orders are not eligible to be canceled based on the quality of service/materials delivered by the seller if the service was rendered as described in the Gig page."

https://www.fiverr.com/terms_of_service

Continuing to press the modification/revision button to bully me into a cancellation violates TOS. If you persist, I will be forced to report you to Fiverr Trust & Safety Team, who may take actions up to, and including disabling your account.

[words_to_wow]

6 minutes ago, vickiespencer said:

When you joined Fiverr, you agreed to their terms of service (TOS), and this document makes it very clear why this order is not eligible for cancellation. It states, "Orders are not eligible to be canceled based on the quality of service/materials delivered by the seller if the service was rendered as described in the Gig page."

Thank you. I did not know this, yet I explained to CS that I did everything the buyer wanted as described in my Gig and it was all in the work I did. CS said that if the buyer is not satisfied, then they can't force them to pay. But CS never said it was possible for this to not affect my Completion rate. I'm going to email them. 

[words_to_wow]

26 minutes ago, mariashtelle1 said:

But you gave a refund anyway by cancelling order, no? 
So you would’ve been better reaching out to support and asking them to cancel without affecting your stats because buyer order wrong option. 
 

That's the thing. The buyer ordered the right gig and I did the work for that gig. I even gave extra and was very kind to the buyer. Why wouldn't CS let me know that this did not have to happen? 

[vickiespencer]

1 hour ago, words_to_wow said:

Why wouldn't CS let me know that this did not have to happen? 

Because CS expects you to have read TOS and know.

[newsmike]

38 minutes ago, vickiespencer said:

Because CS expects you to have read TOS and know.

True, but I have had to remind CS of specifics in TOS on more than one occasion. It is best to approach CS by saying, "I need your help, because according to TOS.....

 

 

[words_to_wow]

1 hour ago, vickiespencer said:

Because CS expects you to have read TOS and know.

I understand. And I expect CS to adhere to their TOS. My not knowing does not make it okay to screw me over. And I accept that it is my responsibility to read TOS thoroughly.

[words_to_wow]

1 hour ago, newsmike said:

True, but I have had to remind CS of specifics in TOS on more than one occasion. It is best to approach CS by saying, "I need your help, because according 

Do you believe that the majority of the fault lies with me for not reading the section of the TOS? Or do you think CS has an obligation to do the right thing and advise based on the TOS which they are required to know? 

I kind of feel like the latter makes more sense, but I know now that I could have pursued this differently.

[leannelrivers]

Being familiar with ToS is important but CS also has an obligation to know them, guide you, and do the right thing. In my experience, the CS folks seem to be following their own rule book. "They" has forced me to take a hit in my stats even for a website bug before. My advice, invest in Seller Plus and give yourself a direct line to an actual person. 

[words_to_wow]

14 minutes ago, leannelrivers said:

Being familiar with ToS is important but CS also has an obligation to know them, guide you, and do the right thing. In my experience, the CS folks seem to be following their own rule book. "They" has forced me to take a hit in my stats even for a website bug before. My advice, invest in Seller Plus and give yourself a direct line to an actual person. 

Thank you so much for your suggestion. I will look more into Seller Plus. But first, I have to read the ToS. There is no excuse for me to be ignorant about this now. Lesson learned! 

[vickiespencer]

3 hours ago, newsmike said:

True, but I have had to remind CS of specifics in TOS on more than one occasion. It is best to approach CS by saying, "I need your help, because according to TOS.....

Knowing the TOS well, is a seller's best defense.

 

 

1 hour ago, leannelrivers said:

My advice, invest in Seller Plus and give yourself a direct line to an actual person. 

Seller Plus is well worth the monthly fee.

[frank_d]

Hi there @words_to_wow

I am sorry about your upcoming demotion, it must feel demoralizing and frustrating.

 

I am not going to talk about terms of service and how you could have prevented the cancellation after the buyer asked for a refund.

 

What I would like to suggest is how to prevent this from happening again in the future.

I assume it’s your branding gig that lead to this situation.

Clients will always have high expectations/personal filters when it comes to taglines and names for their business.

There is no other way around this, it is something that “feels” personal. They can’t detach themselves and be objective.

I am also going to take a wild guess and assume that most people who hire you have a business that’s unremarkable at best. Which makes them feel like they need a fantastic business name/product name/tagline, that will somehow do all the heavy-lifting.

That’s what I consider to be the main issue, so setting expectations is extremely important in your case.

There are two things you can do:

a) raise your price

b) work on your gig description to transition from a description that is trying to convince/convert to one that asserts expertise AND sets expectations.

 

You need to be able to protect your work and lead your clients through rails that you set, in order to minimize the risk of a refund or a mediocre review.

And I think that tweaking your positioning may be just the thing you need to achieve this.

[surajkartha]

Sorry to hear about your experience...

Try taking it up with customer support to see if they can still help you avoid the impact of these cancellations..

[words_to_wow]

3 hours ago, frank_d said:

Hi there @words_to_wow

I am sorry about your upcoming demotion, it must feel demoralizing and frustrating.

 

I am not going to talk about terms of service and how you could have prevented the cancellation after the buyer asked for a refund.

 

What I would like to suggest is how to prevent this from happening again in the future.

I assume it’s your branding gig that lead to this situation.

Clients will always have high expectations/personal filters when it comes to taglines and names for their business.

There is no other way around this, it is something that “feels” personal. They can’t detach themselves and be objective.

I am also going to take a wild guess and assume that most people who hire you have a business that’s unremarkable at best. Which makes them feel like they need a fantastic business name/product name/tagline, that will somehow do all the heavy-lifting.

That’s what I consider to be the main issue, so setting expectations is extremely important in your case.

There are two things you can do:

a) raise your price

b) work on your gig description to transition from a description that is trying to convince/convert to one that asserts expertise AND sets expectations.

 

You need to be able to protect your work and lead your clients through rails that you set, in order to minimize the risk of a refund or a mediocre review.

And I think that tweaking your positioning may be just the thing you need to achieve this.

Hi. I really appreciate your feedback.

You were right about basically everything! I think with my branding gig, my approach seems novice because I don't have years of experience like my competitors. I haven't worked in marketing or for an agency. Therefore, I did not think I could label myself as an expert. However, I do a LOT of work and I take my work very seriously.

I have raised my prices a few times, actually. I felt hesitant about raising them more because other Level 2 sellers with the same gig do not charge as much, and they have more experience and reviews. But if I raise my price, I will possibly attract a different group for buyers 🤔. Got it!

For the gig description, I understand what you mean. I definitely agree. I need to present myself as an expert, not a seller trying to convince buyers to simply place an order. Again, that's me still thinking I don't qualify...

Wow. This discussion feels like a therapy session. You made me realize a few things about myself I had not thought of. You would be an amazing business coach/consultant... or therapist!

[frank_d]

9 minutes ago, words_to_wow said:

Wow. This discussion feels like a therapy session. You made me realize a few things about myself I had not thought of. You would be an amazing business coach/consultant... or therapist!

I am glad to be of assistance.

This is precisely what I am trying to achieve for this community and why I started streaming again yesterday.

 

I want to help people diagnose their businesses and overcome their obstacles.

[words_to_wow]

3 hours ago, surajkartha said:

Sorry to hear about your experience...

Try taking it up with customer support to see if they can still help you avoid the impact of these cancellations..

Thank you. I've contacted them twice about this, most recently, last night. They replied that once the evaluation period restarts on the 61st day, my cancellation will drop and the evaluation period restarts. This is I understand. But that doesn't help me or explain how the buyer's request was approved. I will still be demoted. Anyway, I will be okay. I just have to make some adjustments and become more knowledgeable. 

[newsmike]

10 hours ago, words_to_wow said:

Do you believe that the majority of the fault lies with me for not reading the section of the TOS? Or do you think CS has an obligation to do the right thing and advise based on the TOS which they are required to know? 

It is good to know TOS, but I find that often the CS folks are too quick with a copy and paste reply, so I have learned that I get better results when I remind them in every communication what the TOS advises.  In theory they should be up to speed on all of it, but I think they are moving so quickly that opening a communication by stating what the right thing to do is helps point them in the right direction from the start.  Easier to say, "make this guy follow TOS, which says...." As opposed to hoping they remember or even know what it says.  No fault, just that from experience I get better results when I guide them as they are probably very busy.       

[newsmike]

4 hours ago, words_to_wow said:

But if I raise my price, I will possibly attract a different group for buyers 🤔. Got it!

[words_to_wow]

15 minutes ago, newsmike said:

It is good to know TOS, but I find that often the CS folks are too quick with a copy and paste reply, so I have learned that I get better results when I remind them in every communication what the TOS advises.  In theory they should be up to speed on all of it, but I think they are moving so quickly that opening a communication by stating what the right thing to do is helps point them in the right direction from the start.  Easier to say, "make this guy follow TOS, which says...." As opposed to hoping they remember or even know what it says.  No fault, just that from experience I get better results when I guide them as they are probably very busy.       

I understand. I will keep this mind for future reference. However, as of two hours ago, the CS representative keeps telling me that the order was cancelled because it was not done as promised. Of course, they did not check the delivery or the discussion between the buyer and myself to verify this. If they had, it would be clear that I completed the work as promised and agreed to. Whether the buyer likes it, is a different story. And I reference the ToS but the representative did not acknowledge it. Whatever that buyer told them, is set in stone and sanctified 😒.

It looks like there is nothing I can do at this point. It's not the end of the world, but it sucks. I will bounce back 💪🏾. 

I really appreciate your feedback.