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It is clear that the Point System and Badges do more Harm than Good


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That's exactly the point of this thread. The systems are broken. And while, yes, I am poking around the Invision Community guide, it's due to trying to understand how it works and pass a bit of that understanding along. To work within these new confines. NOT to fix it. That's not my job.

That said, unique likes is an interesting idea, but could also be easily abused, as Sturgeons Law applies and there are FAR more 'gamers' than people trying to earn their way honestly.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, corsogr said:

@imagination7413is reputation that important when you can gain it by playing games with 4-5 friends that like each other nonstop?

Reputation has never been important, but it can be misleading to newbies. When visiting a new forum, it'd be natural to place a fair amount of weight on the words of somebody who is level 11+/15.

While some of the people in the games threads (including me) haven't really done too much to earn their rep, at least most of them know how the site works and have been around it for a while. We have people becoming level 11 at this very moment who don't understand important concepts, like what impressions are and how to market a gig responsibly. It's concerning that these people will now be seen as carrying some sort of authority on here.

Quote

A good metric would be unique likes. Like 1 IP = 1 like. 

That wouldn't work. People would just start hanging out in the introductions section rather than the main section as that's where all the fresh IPs would be. Even if you limited the likes a person can receive from a single user to one per thread, the numbers still don't work. There are far more people looking for magic tricks than sound business advice, and it's much harder to really help somebody with multiple good posts in a single thread than it is to post simplistic stuff in multiple threads. The wrong people would have the edge.

It just seems easier to do away with the level system. If Fiverr wants some kind of system like that, perhaps badges can be given our based on the quality of a person's posts over time.

Edited by ahmwritingco
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5 hours ago, lloydsolutions said:

 

When I posted the above I thought of you and how you could make the perfect cartoon to illustrate this! 🙂

Here's a 3 minute image I came up with, will something like this do!!?? 😆

mixi2.jpg

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@frank_dSomething that might be interesting to read (for moderation/forum team too) @imagination7413 I'd like your feedback too since you brought it up in previous messages.

 

Introducing any "negative reaction" especially if it "damages" or "reduces" in any possible way your forum reputation will result in two things, with mathematical accuracy:

1) An increase of ignoring people with this option, that doesn't work so far:

image.thumb.png.9019093bbc299d22547010bedea5c5ba.png

2) An increase in targeted attacks by forum cliques to anyone they think they "prey upon".

The question, regarding 1) is: If you ignore someone and all the content he/she posts, can you still leave your "negative reactions" that "damages" or "reduces" reputation?

If someone ignores you and your content, can he/she still leave his/her "negative reactions" that "damages" or "reduces" reputations?

If this is possible, then again with mathematical accuracy, any "negative reaction" will be addressed with a perma-ignore, that works as a permaban in this case, in order to protect any reputation from intentional "damage/reduction" attempts.

 

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26 minutes ago, corsogr said:

2) An increase in targeted attacks by forum cliques to anyone they think they "prey upon".

You make a good point. One user, I don't know who, seems to have no life and has decided to express their frustrations by voting down people they dislike, such as Jonbaas and Maria. A couple of days ago, for example, Jonbaas shared a couple of factual posts about it not being possible to change username. These posts were downvoted by somebody who clearly doesn't like him, and isn't mature enough to control their emotions.

This needs to be stopped, somehow, because it's not fair on people looking for answers to their questions.

I'm quite busy today, so I can't really think more on this right now, but you seem to have quite a lot of time on your hands. Maybe you can think of a solution, and I'll come back later and give my opinion on it. #In doers we trust

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4 minutes ago, ahmwritingco said:

One user, I don't know who, seems to have no life and has decided to express their frustrations by voting down people they dislike, such as Jonbaas and Maria. A couple of days ago, for example, Jonbaas shared a couple of factual posts about it not being possible to change username. These posts were downvoted by somebody who clearly doesn't like him, and isn't mature enough to control their emotions.

Oh, now that you mentioned it... That same user downvoted my post on the same thread about not being possible to change username where Jon's posts were downvoted.

But hey, people upvoted us back! 😊 It must have been very depressing for that user to see it. 😉

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6 minutes ago, ahmwritingco said:

One user, I don't know who, seems to have no life and has decided to express their frustrations by voting down people they dislike, such as Jonbaas and Maria. A couple of days ago, for example, Jonbaas shared a couple of factual posts about it not being possible to change username.

What! @jonbaasis one of the biggest contributors to the Fiverr Forum. There is even a Forum Day dedicated to him. One year I made a special Happy Birthday for him. He had a plethora of users respond to my post with not only Happy Birthday wishes but also how his advice had helped them to improve their skills as a seller and contributed their success as sellers. Sometimes his advice was not the codling type they wanted to hear, but when they followed it they acknowledged that it helped them. 

I will have to look up when @jonbaasday is so I can repost that birthday video! 😉 

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Posted (edited)
5 minutes ago, maitasun said:

Oh, now that you mentioned it... That same user downvoted my post on the same thread about not being possible to change username where Jon's posts were downvoted.

But hey, people upvoted us back! 😊 It must have been very depressing for that user to see it. 😉

Oh, really? Thanks for sharing.

I get that good advice is subjective, and people have the right to downvote popular opinions if they have a valid reason to, but some posts just express facts. It isn't right for these posts to be downvoted when they calmly and accurately answer the question being asked.

Edited by ahmwritingco
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Posted (edited)
13 minutes ago, ahmwritingco said:

Oh, really? Thanks for sharing.

You're most welcome! 😊

 

 

13 minutes ago, ahmwritingco said:

I get that good advice is subjective, and people have the right to downvote popular opinions if they have a valid reason to, but some posts just express facts. It isn't right for these posts to be downvoted when they accurately answer the question being asked.

Well, you see? That's what happens when jealousy and frustration abound, and the liver, rather than the head, takes the lead in reacting. 😁

Edited by maitasun
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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, corsogr said:

@frank_dSomething that might be interesting to read (for moderation/forum team too) @imagination7413 I'd like your feedback too since you brought it up in previous messages.

 

Introducing any "negative reaction" especially if it "damages" or "reduces" in any possible way your forum reputation will result in two things, with mathematical accuracy:

1) An increase of ignoring people with this option, that doesn't work so far:

image.thumb.png.9019093bbc299d22547010bedea5c5ba.png

2) An increase in targeted attacks by forum cliques to anyone they think they "prey upon".

The question, regarding 1) is: If you ignore someone and all the content he/she posts, can you still leave your "negative reactions" that "damages" or "reduces" reputation?

If someone ignores you and your content, can he/she still leave his/her "negative reactions" that "damages" or "reduces" reputations?

If this is possible, then again with mathematical accuracy, any "negative reaction" will be addressed with a perma-ignore, that works as a permaban in this case, in order to protect any reputation from intentional "damage/reduction" attempts.

 

I think you should tag @mjensen415 on this.

As for my 2 cents: a reddit style downvote button would cause chaos on this forum as it currently stands.

I could see a point reduction tool granted to mods, same as the ability to reward good replies. (we already have the latter)

If used wisely, it could be used as a tool to deter spammers and nonsense posters.

But even then, I’m not so sure to be honest.

Edited by frank_d
Sprinkled some grammar on it.
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17 hours ago, ahmwritingco said:

We have people becoming level 11 at this very moment who don't understand important concepts, like what impressions are and how to market a gig responsibly.

I have noticed one of these who is guilty of telling sellers in "Improve My Gigs" that their gigs are perfect when they are not. Those poor sellers are mislead! 

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14 hours ago, frank_d said:

I could see a point reduction tool granted to mods, same as the ability to reward good replies. (we already have the latter)

If used wisely, it could be used as a tool to deter spammers and nonsense posters.

But even then, I’m not so sure to be honest.

I'm afraid that, if points given to nonsense posters were reduced, they'd just create more nonsense to try to get more points.

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Diminishing returns. Visible diminishing returns. That's that's the only thing I can think of that might make the spam decrease. Make the grind not worth it, but show it.

An old forum I use to be on use to have a currency system where, the first post you made in a day you got 5 gold (with a sparkly animation announcement), but then it was random if a post got any gold, and the amount also decreased, until you could make ten posts in a row an maybe get one or two gold. This encouraged conversations, since people weren't posting just to earn 'points'. This mostly resulted in either: people popping in to make only a few posts a day (Spam posts or Help posts, or just checking in to a followed topic) to get the bulk gold but then vanishing; or people holding conversations because they were there for the socialization and the occasional gold was just a nice fringe benefit. (Then that forum monetized and it went to...)

I doubt a dynamic point system could be set up, but I'm still reading (there's a LOT of information to look through) on a purely voluntary basis, so who knows. Maybe.

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On 7/8/2021 at 6:59 PM, ahmwritingco said:

We have people becoming level 11 at this very moment who don't understand important concepts, like what impressions are and how to market a gig responsibly.

The other day, I saw a user who was level 11 and when I took a look at their posts, a majority of them were either "stay online, share on social media" or just "welcome to the forum" posts 😩

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I would like a way to report profiles, not just posts. 

Also, I think I FINALLY found the right section in that guide (it's LONG and going to take awhile to read and probably even longer to understand since test-poking isn't an option). https://invisioncommunity.com/4guides/member-functions/achievements-ranks-r362/ 

(I do think badge 'rarity' should be changed if it's at the maybe-default of 5%. Maybe to 1%, or even 0.5%.)

Edited by imagination7413
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Here's a thought. A game forum I used to frequent has no points system or badges of any kind, except one. Well, kind of. Users who consistently provide valuable feedback and behave in a civil manner are given a special forum title and outline around their posts to distinguish them from others. This is done solely at the company's own discretion. You cannot buy, bribe or vote your way in. Only a handful of them exist. And no, those are not moderators.

 

badge.jpg

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