Elevating Our Community part 1: The Curse of expertise

[frank_d]

Hey everyone!

frank hello600×600 2.06 MB

I have been meaning to post this thread for quite some time, but April/May have been rather busy months for me, as I had a surge in Pro gig sales, which has resulted in me almost completely burning out.

What is this post about?

I have been lurking in the forum a lot, noticing how people behave when faced with certain types of posts/replies.

This has been an effort on my part to try to cut through the noise, pin point possible trends and issues, and find a way to share my observations with the community.

(I created a thread about compassion, in which I obviously failed to convey what my thoughts on the forum were.)

My goal is to simply put my observations and thoughts out there, as well as share some simple human psychology concepts.

I am hoping people will read this and will understand the basic psychology behind certain types of behavior, that may ultimately hurt our community.

If we collectively perceive things better, we can hopefully inch towards an elevated community that will help people feel like they belong, that it is safe for them to share and that we all want for everyone to succeed.

What this post is not.

This isn’t a guideline or a request for people to change how they post/reply.

I am also not writing this as a mod.

This is just me, writing about something I noticed.

Enough with the intro, let’s get right to it.

The curse of Knowledge
What is the curse of knowledge?

The curse of knowledge is a cognitive bias that occurs when an individual, communicating with other individuals, unknowingly assumes that the others have the background to understand.

(as per wikipedia)

The more knowledge you have about a topic (even if that is just perceived knowledge), the harder you find it to put yourself in the shoes of a “naive” observer - it is a cognitive bias.

Essentially - you start assuming that other people know the things that you know - which makes you less accommodating to others because you assume that they have the same knowledge and experience as you.

You make the mistake of thinking that because they may have access to the same knowledge as you -like Fiverr Help, or Fiverr’s ToS, or even Community Guidelines- that they will have come to the same conclusion as you.

This is simply not true.

It’s a false narrative, a wrong assumption to make.

Fiverr’s forum is a place where people from vastly different cultures, age groups, education backgrounds and market niches, come to discuss.

It is extremely easy to just assume that everyone knows something that you know.

knowledge empathy2000×1000 47.2 KB

The more you know about something, the more you start lacking empathy, so it’s almost inevitable that all you do is just judge people and try to correct them, because “how could they possibly be so wrong?!?”.

Right?

What does this have to do with our forum?

I have observed behavioral patterns, especially when it comes to our forum’s regulars.
(not the members who necessarily have that badge/title, just people who frequent our community and participate often.)

Here’s how a typical example plays out:

1. Trigger

Someone who is a true beginner on the platform posts a thread.
That thread is either an admission to a stupid mistake they made.
Or they are sharing a gig with questionable samples.
Or maybe they are asking about something that’s truly basic, which reveals they have no idea how the platform works.

2. Reaction

People almost immediately try to “correct” the OP’s behavior, judging them for their mistake/ignorance/stupidity. Even if they are trying to help them, this is ultimately perceived as an “attack” of sort by the OP.

This lacks empathy, and demonstrates we are no longer able to put ourselves in other people’s shoes. (we’ve truly forgotten that there was a day we were not experts ourselves)

3. Escalation

Almost all the time, this will escalate. More and more people jump in, especially when the OP seems to be “resisting”, mostly due to the initial “harsh” response.

This leads to a mob-like mentality, where the end goal is no longer to educate the OP, or to genuinely help. It’s just one huge argument, where a body of the community is trying to defend itself against the OP, and won’t stop until the OP admits how wrong they are.

What can we do?

Realizing this may be happening, is actually half the job.

Once we actually accept that this is a possibility, there are some pointers people who choose to be here and participate often:

Do not assume anything about others:
Their experience, their knowledge, their understanding, their culture, their education, and so on.

Do not assume that you can predict what their reaction will be to news/data/rules/concepts, or what their interpretation of them will be.

Carefully consider your own cognitive biases, especially if you either have more knowledge/experience, or if you perceive that you do - and reflect on that before posting/replying/sharing.

Finally, just ask yourselves: “Is what I am about to post helpful?”

If you feel really strongly about something, type out your reply, and let it sit for 2-3 minutes before posting.

Try -as an exercise- to read it and imagine you were about to send it to a loved one. It helps to see things from a different POV, and maybe empathy will kick in before you actually engage in an argument.

This is pretty much the gist of it.

I have at least 6-7 subjects in this area that I can post about, if people find this “part 1” helpful.

As always I will be here to answer any questions and discuss things in detail with you all.

Thank you!

main_3800×800 433 KB

[mariashtelle1]

Hey everyone!

frank hello600×600 2.06 MB

I have been meaning to post this thread for quite some time, but April/May have been rather busy months for me, as I had a surge in Pro gig sales, which has resulted in me almost completely burning out.

What is this post about?

I have been lurking in the forum a lot, noticing how people behave when faced with certain types of posts/replies.

This has been an effort on my part to try to cut through the noise, pin point possible trends and issues, and find a way to share my observations with the community.

(I created a thread about compassion, in which I obviously failed to convey what my thoughts on the forum were.)

My goal is to simply put my observations and thoughts out there, as well as share some simple human psychology concepts.

I am hoping people will read this and will understand the basic psychology behind certain types of behavior, that may ultimately hurt our community.

If we collectively perceive things better, we can hopefully inch towards an elevated community that will help people feel like they belong, that it is safe for them to share and that we all want for everyone to succeed.

What this post is not.

This isn’t a guideline or a request for people to change how they post/reply.

I am also not writing this as a mod.

This is just me, writing about something I noticed.

Enough with the intro, let’s get right to it.

The curse of Knowledge

What is the curse of knowledge?

The curse of knowledge is a cognitive bias that occurs when an individual, communicating with other individuals, unknowingly assumes that the others have the background to understand.

(as per wikipedia)

The more knowledge you have about a topic (even if that is just perceived knowledge), the harder you find it to put yourself in the shoes of a “naive” observer - it is a cognitive bias.

Essentially - you start assuming that other people know the things that you know - which makes you less accommodating to others because you assume that they have the same knowledge and experience as you.

You make the mistake of thinking that because they may have access to the same knowledge as you -like Fiverr Help, or Fiverr’s ToS, or even Community Guidelines- that they will have come to the same conclusion as you.

This is simply not true.

It’s a false narrative, a wrong assumption to make.

Fiverr’s forum is a place where people from vastly different cultures, age groups, education backgrounds and market niches, come to discuss.

It is extremely easy to just assume that everyone knows something that you know.

knowledge empathy2000×1000 47.2 KB

The more you know about something, the more you start lacking empathy, so it’s almost inevitable that all you do is just judge people and try to correct them, because “how could they possibly be so wrong?!?”.

Right?

What does this have to do with our forum?

I have observed behavioral patterns, especially when it comes to our forum’s regulars.

(not the members who necessarily have that badge/title, just people who frequent our community and participate often.)

Here’s how a typical example plays out:

1. Trigger

Someone who is a true beginner on the platform posts a thread.

That thread is either an admission to a stupid mistake they made.

Or they are sharing a gig with questionable samples.

Or maybe they are asking about something that’s truly basic, which reveals they have no idea how the platform works.

2. Reaction

People almost immediately try to “correct” the OP’s behavior, judging them for their mistake/ignorance/stupidity. Even if they are trying to help them, this is ultimately perceived as an “attack” of sort by the OP.

This lacks empathy, and demonstrates we are no longer able to put ourselves in other people’s shoes. (we’ve truly forgotten that there was a day we were not experts ourselves)

3. Escalation

Almost all the time, this will escalate. More and more people jump in, especially when the OP seems to be “resisting”, mostly due to the initial “harsh” response.

This leads to a mob-like mentality, where the end goal is no longer to educate the OP, or to genuinely help. It’s just one huge argument, where a body of the community is trying to defend itself against the OP, and won’t stop until the OP admits how wrong they are.

What can we do?

Realizing this may be happening, is actually half the job.

Once we actually accept that this is a possibility, there are some pointers people who choose to be here and participate often:

Do not assume anything about others:

Their experience, their knowledge, their understanding, their culture, their education, and so on.

Do not assume that you can predict what their reaction will be to news/data/rules/concepts, or what their interpretation of them will be.

Carefully consider your own cognitive biases, especially if you either have more knowledge/experience, or if you perceive that you do - and reflect on that before posting/replying/sharing.

Finally, just ask yourselves: “Is what I am about to post helpful?”

If you feel really strongly about something, type out your reply, and let it sit for 2-3 minutes before posting.

Try -as an exercise- to read it and imagine you were about to send it to a loved one. It helps to see things from a different POV, and maybe empathy will kick in before you actually engage in an argument.

This is pretty much the gist of it.

I have at least 6-7 subjects in this area that I can post about, if people find this “part 1” helpful.

As always I will be here to answer any questions and discuss things in detail with you all.

Thank you!

main_3800×800 433 KB

Is what I am about to post helpful?”

Thank you for your valuable information 😍

[vickiespencer]

Hey everyone!

frank hello600×600 2.06 MB

I have been meaning to post this thread for quite some time, but April/May have been rather busy months for me, as I had a surge in Pro gig sales, which has resulted in me almost completely burning out.

What is this post about?

I have been lurking in the forum a lot, noticing how people behave when faced with certain types of posts/replies.

This has been an effort on my part to try to cut through the noise, pin point possible trends and issues, and find a way to share my observations with the community.

(I created a thread about compassion, in which I obviously failed to convey what my thoughts on the forum were.)

My goal is to simply put my observations and thoughts out there, as well as share some simple human psychology concepts.

I am hoping people will read this and will understand the basic psychology behind certain types of behavior, that may ultimately hurt our community.

If we collectively perceive things better, we can hopefully inch towards an elevated community that will help people feel like they belong, that it is safe for them to share and that we all want for everyone to succeed.

What this post is not.

This isn’t a guideline or a request for people to change how they post/reply.

I am also not writing this as a mod.

This is just me, writing about something I noticed.

Enough with the intro, let’s get right to it.

The curse of Knowledge

What is the curse of knowledge?

The curse of knowledge is a cognitive bias that occurs when an individual, communicating with other individuals, unknowingly assumes that the others have the background to understand.

(as per wikipedia)

The more knowledge you have about a topic (even if that is just perceived knowledge), the harder you find it to put yourself in the shoes of a “naive” observer - it is a cognitive bias.

Essentially - you start assuming that other people know the things that you know - which makes you less accommodating to others because you assume that they have the same knowledge and experience as you.

You make the mistake of thinking that because they may have access to the same knowledge as you -like Fiverr Help, or Fiverr’s ToS, or even Community Guidelines- that they will have come to the same conclusion as you.

This is simply not true.

It’s a false narrative, a wrong assumption to make.

Fiverr’s forum is a place where people from vastly different cultures, age groups, education backgrounds and market niches, come to discuss.

It is extremely easy to just assume that everyone knows something that you know.

knowledge empathy2000×1000 47.2 KB

The more you know about something, the more you start lacking empathy, so it’s almost inevitable that all you do is just judge people and try to correct them, because “how could they possibly be so wrong?!?”.

Right?

What does this have to do with our forum?

I have observed behavioral patterns, especially when it comes to our forum’s regulars.

(not the members who necessarily have that badge/title, just people who frequent our community and participate often.)

Here’s how a typical example plays out:

1. Trigger

Someone who is a true beginner on the platform posts a thread.

That thread is either an admission to a stupid mistake they made.

Or they are sharing a gig with questionable samples.

Or maybe they are asking about something that’s truly basic, which reveals they have no idea how the platform works.

2. Reaction

People almost immediately try to “correct” the OP’s behavior, judging them for their mistake/ignorance/stupidity. Even if they are trying to help them, this is ultimately perceived as an “attack” of sort by the OP.

This lacks empathy, and demonstrates we are no longer able to put ourselves in other people’s shoes. (we’ve truly forgotten that there was a day we were not experts ourselves)

3. Escalation

Almost all the time, this will escalate. More and more people jump in, especially when the OP seems to be “resisting”, mostly due to the initial “harsh” response.

This leads to a mob-like mentality, where the end goal is no longer to educate the OP, or to genuinely help. It’s just one huge argument, where a body of the community is trying to defend itself against the OP, and won’t stop until the OP admits how wrong they are.

What can we do?

Realizing this may be happening, is actually half the job.

Once we actually accept that this is a possibility, there are some pointers people who choose to be here and participate often:

Do not assume anything about others:

Their experience, their knowledge, their understanding, their culture, their education, and so on.

Do not assume that you can predict what their reaction will be to news/data/rules/concepts, or what their interpretation of them will be.

Carefully consider your own cognitive biases, especially if you either have more knowledge/experience, or if you perceive that you do - and reflect on that before posting/replying/sharing.

Finally, just ask yourselves: “Is what I am about to post helpful?”

If you feel really strongly about something, type out your reply, and let it sit for 2-3 minutes before posting.

Try -as an exercise- to read it and imagine you were about to send it to a loved one. It helps to see things from a different POV, and maybe empathy will kick in before you actually engage in an argument.

This is pretty much the gist of it.

I have at least 6-7 subjects in this area that I can post about, if people find this “part 1” helpful.

As always I will be here to answer any questions and discuss things in detail with you all.

Thank you!

main_3800×800 433 KB

Finally, just ask yourselves: “Is what I am about to post helpful?”

When I taught, we taught our students this acronym.

Screen Shot 2021-05-30 at 10.10.24 AM1470×1114 210 KB

That being said, I would like to see posts that are copied restatements of prior posts deleted. I get very tired of reading the echoes :speaking_head:!

So, yes, I have commented on those posts and “called out” those posters. So, I guess they are a trigger for me and I do react. How else will these types of posters learn to not merely repost what someone else has said. I am not sure it helps for them to be flagged and their message grayed out. Unless the mods are explaining their errors. Plus, these types of posts clutter the thread.

[taronbd]

Hi frank_d
Thank you for your valuable post. There is a lot to learn through this. 🙂

[frank_d]

Is what I am about to post helpful?”

Thank you for your valuable information 😍

Thank you for your valuable information 😍

I guess I had that coming. 🙂

@vickiespencer

I agree that these types of posts (echoing bad advice or perpetuating myths) are not helpful for anyone, or adding any value.

I personally choose to ignore them, unless there is something that I feel needs to be heard. (Like a counterpoint)

Those types of users tend to be in a place where they are just looking to confirm their bias and they actually choose to believe in the lie.

So they can’t be helped, IMO.

I have nothing to say that will help them, so I choose to ignore them.

[afarigh]

@frank_d Finally someone said it!

I’ve been here a month and I’m very new. I have been reading a lot through the forums to gain the know how of the trade as when it comes to this platform I’m an absolute novice.

During the beginning I used to ask questions on the forum relevant to me and things I wanted to know more. I had a very disheartening experience and I was like why is everyone so stuck up on the forum. I’ve had other forum experiences too but nothing like this and maybe I thought it’s just me, I need to change my perception.

However, I don’t want to point fingers — maybe I already did, but really appreciate the helpful people out here too.

It’s a terrible disease, the know-it-all attitude and the belief someone else must know better. Spot on, again 👏

• Rant from a newbie

[frank_d]

@frank_d Finally someone said it!

I’ve been here a month and I’m very new. I have been reading a lot through the forums to gain the know how of the trade as when it comes to this platform I’m an absolute novice.

During the beginning I used to ask questions on the forum relevant to me and things I wanted to know more. I had a very disheartening experience and I was like why is everyone so stuck up on the forum. I’ve had other forum experiences too but nothing like this and maybe I thought it’s just me, I need to change my perception.

However, I don’t want to point fingers — maybe I already did, but really appreciate the helpful people out here too.

It’s a terrible disease, the know-it-all attitude and the belief someone else must know better. Spot on, again 👏

• Rant from a newbie

I am sorry to hear about your forum experience thus far.

I am trying my best to make this a more friendly/helpful place for both new and senior members.

Hopefully we can all help elevate the forum and make this a place where everyone can find support.

[vickiespencer]

Thank you for your valuable information 😍

I guess I had that coming. 🙂

@vickiespencer

I agree that these types of posts (echoing bad advice or perpetuating myths) are not helpful for anyone, or adding any value.

I personally choose to ignore them, unless there is something that I feel needs to be heard. (Like a counterpoint)

Those types of users tend to be in a place where they are just looking to confirm their bias and they actually choose to believe in the lie.

So they can’t be helped, IMO.

I have nothing to say that will help them, so I choose to ignore them.

I guess I had that coming. 🙂

Yep. 😉

So they can’t be helped, IMO.

If “the repeat what someone else says” posts are dealt with by pointing out that it is not acceptable, then that is helpful for the individual and decluttering the forum in my opinion.

I am off, the groceries will not buy themselves. 🍎

[frank_d]

I guess I had that coming. 🙂

Yep. 😉

So they can’t be helped, IMO.

If “the repeat what someone else says” posts are dealt with by pointing out that it is not acceptable, then that is helpful for the individual and decluttering the forum in my opinion.

I am off, the groceries will not buy themselves. 🍎

I can see your point, and I can definitely see myself agreeing.

At the same time, how can that be enforced?

By deleting posts and policing what people say?

(I was referring to the de-cluttering part)

As for helping the user, maybe if you have a templated reply and just post it once will be enough.

But ultimately we can’t control how people behave or whether they want to be helped.

[vickiespencer]

I can see your point, and I can definitely see myself agreeing.

At the same time, how can that be enforced?

By deleting posts and policing what people say?

(I was referring to the de-cluttering part)

As for helping the user, maybe if you have a templated reply and just post it once will be enough.

But ultimately we can’t control how people behave or whether they want to be helped.

By deleting posts and policing what people say?

Posts are already deleted without being even grayed out. :thinking:

I’ve had other forum experiences too but nothing like this

That is what I thought when I saw a post that got deleted without any explanation. Usually, those types of posts are grayed out, or when they have been removed, a comment is left saying they were removed and why.

Okay off to do the shopping.

[enunciator]

Is what I am about to post helpful?”

Thank you for your valuable information 😍

Thank you for your valuable information 😍

😆 Ah, a fine example of an all too common reply which doesn’t move the discussion forward or bring anything substantial to the forefront. For those new/unfamiliar to the forum, they will overlook the point presented here by @mariashtelle1.

I have nothing to say that will help them, so I choose to ignore them.

If a piece of advice/statement/claim is so egregious, false, or harmful, then there are many occasions that I cannot help but to interject in a rather blunt manner, as I perceive the unchallenged perpetuation of such posts to be a worse affront than me being a somewhat snarky forum member at times.

In @vickiespencer’s acronym image, I know I definitely emphasize T, H, and N, but often am lacking in I and K, but that may very well be due to me preferring substantive discussions and replies instead of niceties and positivities, and reflects in how I post.

[afarigh]

Thank you for your valuable information 😍

😆 Ah, a fine example of an all too common reply which doesn’t move the discussion forward or bring anything substantial to the forefront. For those new/unfamiliar to the forum, they will overlook the point presented here by @mariashtelle1.

I have nothing to say that will help them, so I choose to ignore them.

If a piece of advice/statement/claim is so egregious, false, or harmful, then there are many occasions that I cannot help but to interject in a rather blunt manner, as I perceive the unchallenged perpetuation of such posts to be a worse affront than me being a somewhat snarky forum member at times.

In @vickiespencer’s acronym image, I know I definitely emphasize T, H, and N, but often am lacking in I and K, but that may very well be due to me preferring substantive discussions and replies instead of niceties and positivities, and reflects in how I post.

😆 Ah, a fine example of an all too common reply which doesn’t move the discussion forward or bring anything substantial to the forefront. For those new/unfamiliar to the forum, they will overlook the point presented here by @mariashtelle1.

Some may get the sarcasm there and some may not, if there was any sarcasm there at all! I think it’s important to understand there’ll be those who really appreciate posts and say that or some may not have anything better to say.

Though I can’t say exactly what it is but from what I’ve seen it seems some get off dissecting posts rather than helping an innocent query of a new user. It is what it is, can’t say no more! Don’t feel like getting eaten alive!

[frank_d]

😆 Ah, a fine example of an all too common reply which doesn’t move the discussion forward or bring anything substantial to the forefront. For those new/unfamiliar to the forum, they will overlook the point presented here by @mariashtelle1.

Some may get the sarcasm there and some may not, if there was any sarcasm there at all! I think it’s important to understand there’ll be those who really appreciate posts and say that or some may not have anything better to say.

Though I can’t say exactly what it is but from what I’ve seen it seems some get off dissecting posts rather than helping an innocent query of a new user. It is what it is, can’t say no more! Don’t feel like getting eaten alive!

To be honest this is actually the perfect example of possible cultural differences.

There are members who actually find a post helpful and genuinely share that fact with a short comment, usually accompanied by several emojis.

On the other hand, there are forum members who truly believe that forum participation brings sales on the platform and choose to jump on every thread they can with such comments, hoping this low-hanging fruit kind of post will lead to more money in their pocket.

At the moment, the majority of forum members in this community don’t like these kind of replies.

Maybe this is due to their expertise bias: they find these type of replies to be clutter and unnecessary.

[catwriter]

😆 Ah, a fine example of an all too common reply which doesn’t move the discussion forward or bring anything substantial to the forefront. For those new/unfamiliar to the forum, they will overlook the point presented here by @mariashtelle1.

Some may get the sarcasm there and some may not, if there was any sarcasm there at all! I think it’s important to understand there’ll be those who really appreciate posts and say that or some may not have anything better to say.

Though I can’t say exactly what it is but from what I’ve seen it seems some get off dissecting posts rather than helping an innocent query of a new user. It is what it is, can’t say no more! Don’t feel like getting eaten alive!

there’ll be those who really appreciate posts

That’s what the little heart at the right corner of the bottom of the post is for. It’s there so the forum doesn’t get cluttered with thank yous that make it more difficult to find information in the topic.

some may not have anything better to say.

It’s perfectly fine to say nothing at all. It really is.

[frank_d]

there’ll be those who really appreciate posts

That’s what the little heart at the right corner of the bottom of the post is for. It’s there so the forum doesn’t get cluttered with thank yous that make it more difficult to find information in the topic.

some may not have anything better to say.

It’s perfectly fine to say nothing at all. It really is.

Both excellent points @catwriter, thank you for bringing your POV on this thread.

Maybe if there was a Reddit type function where such posts can be hidden if the community downvotes them?

That would definitely help de-clutter.

[catwriter]

Both excellent points @catwriter, thank you for bringing your POV on this thread.

Maybe if there was a Reddit type function where such posts can be hidden if the community downvotes them?

That would definitely help de-clutter.

Maybe if there was a Reddit type function where such posts can be hidden if the community downvotes them?

Sounds like a great idea, if there’s a way to prevent abuse (like a group of users revenge downvoting someone’s posts).

[afarigh]

there’ll be those who really appreciate posts

That’s what the little heart at the right corner of the bottom of the post is for. It’s there so the forum doesn’t get cluttered with thank yous that make it more difficult to find information in the topic.

some may not have anything better to say.

It’s perfectly fine to say nothing at all. It really is.

Oh the irony! Some don’t know what the heart is for and that’s the whole point. I know we get reminded quite often of the function the little heart by the UI but, not everyone cares!

It’s perfectly fine to say nothing at all. It really is.

That’s a thought I wouldn’t enforce on others, maybe apply for myself, yes!

[miiila]

😆 Ah, a fine example of an all too common reply which doesn’t move the discussion forward or bring anything substantial to the forefront. For those new/unfamiliar to the forum, they will overlook the point presented here by @mariashtelle1.

Some may get the sarcasm there and some may not, if there was any sarcasm there at all! I think it’s important to understand there’ll be those who really appreciate posts and say that or some may not have anything better to say.

Though I can’t say exactly what it is but from what I’ve seen it seems some get off dissecting posts rather than helping an innocent query of a new user. It is what it is, can’t say no more! Don’t feel like getting eaten alive!

Don’t feel like getting eaten alive!

But didn’t you see the sign, or rather painting, on the door? 😉

image960×540 71 KB

[imagination7413]

I can see your point, and I can definitely see myself agreeing.

At the same time, how can that be enforced?

By deleting posts and policing what people say?

(I was referring to the de-cluttering part)

As for helping the user, maybe if you have a templated reply and just post it once will be enough.

But ultimately we can’t control how people behave or whether they want to be helped.

I do try to keep my cognitive biases, and personal ‘big-red-button’ triggers in mind, but I’m not always successful.

maybe if you have a templated reply

This is my go-to. I’ll admit some of it is extremely general and rather impersonal, but I’ve been very careful to make most of my copy/paste actually constructive, helpful, friendly-but-stern, and accurate.

Also, "Please see " and “Have you read” links. They might be even more impersonal, but I do try to make sure they’re relevant to the OP and/or topic and convey the basics.

It’s when the links are ignored, when the answer is there, that I can get annoyed. If it’s just a misinterpretation, fine, I don’t mind elaborating (too much), but I can only explain something so many different ways.

And I refuse to do someone else work for them. That’s just a big ‘no’ for me.

That’s what the little heart at the right corner of the bottom of the post is for.

Source! (Because not enough people know this isn’t just a suggestion. It’s a part of the forum rules.) FAQ - Fiverr Community Forum

[muriithikelvin]

@frank_d thank you for your time and this mind-changing topic.
As a newbie, I have had an amazing experience in this forum.
Some members in the forum have been very helpful in showing everyone around and welcoming newbies.
I have used really helpful tips from this forum on how to respond to buyer requests, improve my gigs(am still working on this especially the images), and general counsel. As a result, I have received and successfully completed a couple of orders a few days ago but today I got a 5star rating, a very positive review, and an enormous tip.
So, thank you everyone for your warm support.
As for the issue with the few with the knowledge curse, I just filter out useful knowledge from their advice without the need to raise an argument.
I would describe this forum as a rich knowledge bank and a place where the Fiverr community can interact, hone each others´ experiences and most importantly grow and develop together.

[catwriter]

Oh the irony! Some don’t know what the heart is for and that’s the whole point. I know we get reminded quite often of the function the little heart by the UI but, not everyone cares!

It’s perfectly fine to say nothing at all. It really is.

That’s a thought I wouldn’t enforce on others, maybe apply for myself, yes!

I know we get reminded quite often of the function the little heart by the UI but, not everyone cares!

If they don’t care about the forum rules and making the forum more useful for everyone so that people who need help can actually get it, it’s not much of a surprise if some users dislike them and their behavior.

Essentially - you start assuming that other people know the things that you know - which makes you less accommodating to others because you assume that they have the same knowledge and experience as you.

I’d say it’s more thinking that if we were able to find that information on our own, they should have been able to find it, too; that if their English isn’t good enough to understand the rules, it’s unlikely they’ll succeed anyway; and that if we took our time to read through the Help articles and the ToS and everything, they should put in the same effort instead of expecting someone to guide them a baby step by baby step.

Not exactly compassionate, I know, but I’d say that’s how some frequent users feel.

[afarigh]

I do try to keep my cognitive biases, and personal ‘big-red-button’ triggers in mind, but I’m not always successful.

maybe if you have a templated reply

This is my go-to. I’ll admit some of it is extremely general and rather impersonal, but I’ve been very careful to make most of my copy/paste actually constructive, helpful, friendly-but-stern, and accurate.

Also, "Please see " and “Have you read” links. They might be even more impersonal, but I do try to make sure they’re relevant to the OP and/or topic and convey the basics.

It’s when the links are ignored, when the answer is there, that I can get annoyed. If it’s just a misinterpretation, fine, I don’t mind elaborating (too much), but I can only explain something so many different ways.

And I refuse to do someone else work for them. That’s just a big ‘no’ for me.

That’s what the little heart at the right corner of the bottom of the post is for.

Source! (Because not enough people know this isn’t just a suggestion. It’s a part of the forum rules.) FAQ - Fiverr Community Forum

Source! (Because not enough people know this isn’t just a suggestion. It’s a part of the forum rules.) FAQ - Fiverr Community Forum

“Rather than posting “+1” or “Agreed”, use the Like button. Rather than taking an existing topic in a radically different direction, use Reply as a Linked Topic.” (FAQ - Fiverr Community Forum)

The rule doesn’t explicitly say that if you agree on something you can’t say it aloud! Just my inference, maybe I’m wrong. However, I’m not all for the too generic responses, but there’ll be those who appreciate posts and say it aloud!

[imagination7413]

Source! (Because not enough people know this isn’t just a suggestion. It’s a part of the forum rules.) FAQ - Fiverr Community Forum

“Rather than posting “+1” or “Agreed”, use the Like button. Rather than taking an existing topic in a radically different direction, use Reply as a Linked Topic.” (FAQ - Fiverr Community Forum)

The rule doesn’t explicitly say that if you agree on something you can’t say it aloud! Just my inference, maybe I’m wrong. However, I’m not all for the too generic responses, but there’ll be those who appreciate posts and say it aloud!

The rule doesn’t implicitly say that if you agree on something you can’t say it aloud!

This is true, but it’s the whole ‘interpretation’ issue combined with functionality.

I’m not all for the too generic responses, but there’ll be those who appreciate posts and say it aloud

Exactly.

I’m going to elaborate, for any newcomers who happen to be reading this and wondering ‘why’.

I have a ‘help’ thread here on the forum, and I’ll happily answer questions people have or expand on points, which can also be very useful supplemental info to the main post. The problem is you have to scroll past dozens of ‘thx 4 info’ posts that only make the thread pointlessly long. It’s back to the ‘seeking info and easily finding it’ issue.

Think of it like an old ‘Ask Abby’ newspaper column. The mini articles answer questions, and people might write in ‘thank you’ to the paper, but those ‘thx’ are almost never printed. And the few that are, are usually longer, and/or because they also provide interesting info or make a good story/example.

(Hey! Newspapers! Remember those? For all you young’uns, think of them like a livestream AMA where the questions are prescreened and chosen to be answered. The streamer does NOT read every chat post.)

[vibronx]

Okay, this post is not as structured (and perhaps not as thought out) as most of my other posts. It is more of a rant, but it comes straight from the heart:

I posted in your other thread on this topic that I would be more careful with my posts and what threads I participate in. As @vickiespencer puts it - I would THINK before posting.

I had gotten it into my head that I could save the platform/forum by doing everything I could to get rid of scammers/bad actors by calling them out and then reporting them. While I do still think they deserve it, it simply took too much of my time, and it was bad for my mental health to get into so many arguments. It is best for me to simply comment when someone genuinely wants help, so my helpful posts (in my totally objective opinion) can be embraced instead of rejected.

This is the only thing I can do to make the forum experience better for me personally.

I definitely agree with your outline of how most threads go. I have been guilty of “reacting” in the same way myself, as mentioned before. However, I am not so sure that the regular users are the problem on this forum.

I see much more abusive behavior from newbies when they lash out after a thread doesn’t go the way they planned. While it is sometimes fun to watch a trainwreck unfold (one of the charms of the forum to me), it seems to me like “new users” get more leniency than regular users.

For example, there was a “tips thread” a couple of days ago from a user known for lashing out at anyone who does not respond favorably to his tips. He has insulted people half a dozen times, if not more. He has done it time and time again over several weeks and months, and while he has been given a warning (actually two if you count a now removed thread), I do not understand why such a user is not banned when respected regular users have been banned for what I perceive to be lesser transgressions.

One very respected user was even banned for a whole year some months back - a reason has still not be specified on his profile, which I think is awful if I have to be honest. I do not condone silencing people, but in my opinion, some users are being treated more leniently than others.

I have spent more than one and a half decade being active on the internet after we replaced our modem with Wi-Fi, and in my time online, I have never seen a forum like this overrun with so many bad posts. On any other website, people posting echo posts like @vickiespencer mentioned would be gone in the blink of an eye.

I started posted here about a year ago, starry-eyed with a genuine desire to help, but now I have become weary and disillusioned. The same threads over and over, the same bad advice, the same arguments. It is truly never-ending. Also, it is baffling that in the year 2021 (I usually don’t like to use “current year” as an argument, but I will make an exception this time), people cannot figure out how to find their own answers using the search function or Google. So, yes, experience or knowledge have led to less empathy in my case, so I have just started posting much less.

I now only post once a day or every second day. I suspect that some users have stopped posting for some of the same reasons mentioned above.

Finally, I will say that some new users just need to grow a thicker skin when faced with criticism. You’re running your own business. You need to be able to use it and apply it. My previous thread explains more on how I feel about that:

If you are coming to the Fiverr Forum to gain insights on how to improve your gig or how to get more sales, you have to be open to the fact that your gig or your work might be criticized. People do not criticize to be insulting; they do it to help you. Instead, be grateful that they are taking time out of their day to help you when they have no obligation to do so. Of course, we might not want to hear that we are doing something wrong, especially not if it is about something close to our heart …

[frank_d]

Okay, this post is not as structured (and perhaps not as thought out) as most of my other posts. It is more of a rant, but it comes straight from the heart:

I posted in your other thread on this topic that I would be more careful with my posts and what threads I participate in. As @vickiespencer puts it - I would THINK before posting.

I had gotten it into my head that I could save the platform/forum by doing everything I could to get rid of scammers/bad actors by calling them out and then reporting them. While I do still think they deserve it, it simply took too much of my time, and it was bad for my mental health to get into so many arguments. It is best for me to simply comment when someone genuinely wants help, so my helpful posts (in my totally objective opinion) can be embraced instead of rejected.

This is the only thing I can do to make the forum experience better for me personally.

I definitely agree with your outline of how most threads go. I have been guilty of “reacting” in the same way myself, as mentioned before. However, I am not so sure that the regular users are the problem on this forum.

I see much more abusive behavior from newbies when they lash out after a thread doesn’t go the way they planned. While it is sometimes fun to watch a trainwreck unfold (one of the charms of the forum to me), it seems to me like “new users” get more leniency than regular users.

For example, there was a “tips thread” a couple of days ago from a user known for lashing out at anyone who does not respond favorably to his tips. He has insulted people half a dozen times, if not more. He has done it time and time again over several weeks and months, and while he has been given a warning (actually two if you count a now removed thread), I do not understand why such a user is not banned when respected regular users have been banned for what I perceive to be lesser transgressions.

One very respected user was even banned for a whole year some months back - a reason has still not be specified on his profile, which I think is awful if I have to be honest. I do not condone silencing people, but in my opinion, some users are being treated more leniently than others.

I have spent more than one and a half decade being active on the internet after we replaced our modem with Wi-Fi, and in my time online, I have never seen a forum like this overrun with so many bad posts. On any other website, people posting echo posts like @vickiespencer mentioned would be gone in the blink of an eye.

I started posted here about a year ago, starry-eyed with a genuine desire to help, but now I have become weary and disillusioned. The same threads over and over, the same bad advice, the same arguments. It is truly never-ending. Also, it is baffling that in the year 2021 (I usually don’t like to use “current year” as an argument, but I will make an exception this time), people cannot figure out how to find their own answers using the search function or Google. So, yes, experience or knowledge have led to less empathy in my case, so I have just started posting much less.

I now only post once a day or every second day. I suspect that some users have stopped posting for some of the same reasons mentioned above.

Finally, I will say that some new users just need to grow a thicker skin when faced with criticism. You’re running your own business. You need to be able to use it and apply it. My previous thread explains more on how I feel about that:

If you are coming to the Fiverr Forum to gain insights on how to improve your gig or how to get more sales, you have to be open to the fact that your gig or your work might be criticized. People do not criticize to be insulting; they do it to help you. Instead, be grateful that they are taking time out of their day to help you when they have no obligation to do so. Of course, we might not want to hear that we are doing something wrong, especially not if it is about something close to our heart …

Thank you for sharing your thoughts @vibronx.

I need to sit and read through it a few more times to make sure I feel confident that I understand it fully.

But I will say this first and foremost:

The fact that I am addressing regulars, isn’t because they are to blame.

I am addressing regulars as they are, in fact, burdened with knowledge.

They are the best candidates for people who can bring actual change.

I apologize @vibronx if my previous post made you feel you were at fault or that I was blaming you for anything.

It wasn’t my intention.

It is also not yours or anyone’s responsibility what happens to this forum.

All I ask for is for people who know better, to act in a manner that benefits the forum.