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Buyer is also a seller on fiverr and is selling my VO without broadcasting/commercial rights


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There is a seller on fiverr who purchased a VO for an advert script and did not pay for the commercial/broadcasting rights. Is the seller protected? I asked my buyer to put me in contact with his clients so I could at least find out if they need rights or not, but he has not done so. I’m not sure what I should do. Any advice?

the seller is attaching my VO to a video and NOT blatantly stealing my work.

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Technically reselling is not illegal. It is what most shops do - buy plastic thing in a plastic bag and sell it to someone else.

Of course, tho in Services and Creative, esp those that thrive on Credit for work done, not letting the Creative know what the work is for is un-professional in the extreme. Most real professional will decline the job instantly. I pretty well do.

Reselling under another name is actually depriving the real creator of their moral right to be acknowledged (law in most civilized countries as it is a pillar of IP law).

If reseller doesn’t acknowledge who they are, why they are there, and what the work will be used for, I think they are at least a very poor person to be working with.

In this case, probably nothing you can do but make yourself less attractive to bottom-feeders and more attractive to real buyers who will honor your work.

🙂

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  • 3 months later...

You are selling your publishing rights, as evidenced by the “proof of work” fiverr sends to the “buyer”…you have no recourse…you sold your services as a “work for hire”. I would suggest raising your rates according to this knowledge. Don’t sell yourself short, and do some research on “work for hire”, in relation to music/audio. Not being condescending, do the research for your own benefit. The “rules” and case precedent on this matter are VERY clear (just ask you affiliate). Once you engage in a “work for hire” that “tangible medium” is now the property of the buyer, and they can do whatever they want with it. Your intellectual property, on the other hand, is a different matter. That is always yours.

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Technically reselling is not illegal. It is what most shops do - buy plastic thing in a plastic bag and sell it to someone else.

Of course, tho in Services and Creative, esp those that thrive on Credit for work done, not letting the Creative know what the work is for is un-professional in the extreme. Most real professional will decline the job instantly. I pretty well do.

Reselling under another name is actually depriving the real creator of their moral right to be acknowledged (law in most civilized countries as it is a pillar of IP law).

If reseller doesn’t acknowledge who they are, why they are there, and what the work will be used for, I think they are at least a very poor person to be working with.

In this case, probably nothing you can do but make yourself less attractive to bottom-feeders and more attractive to real buyers who will honor your work.

🙂

100%…don’t sell yourself short!!!

In this case, probably nothing you can do but make yourself less attractive to bottom-feeders and more attractive to real buyers who will honor your work.

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All,

I decided to submit a fiverr support ticket and it was eventually ruled that the reseller did need to purchase commercial rights in order o resell my work.

If you ever decide to do this because someone is reselling your work, I recommend being persistent and making a very good case for yourself. The support team on numerous occasions decided my case was resolved without even answering my questions and often more than one fiverr support agents contracdicted each other.

So for whoever said “not to be condescending… rules are VERY clear…” yeah not so much. Even fiverr support was clueless at most points.

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Here’s the deal: if the buyer is planning on re-selling your VO they need the rights to it. I would think reselling it does require a full buy-out, but that’s up to you.

You set your rates. So you can for example require anyone reselling your voice overs to pay 50 bucks extra etc. But that would probably cost you a lot of clients.

I just keep it simple: if a seller on Fiverr (for example a video animator) needs a voice for their client, they have to buy commercial rights. If their client is planning on using it for paid ads/tv/radio etc. then they have to buy the broadcast rights instead.

If they don’t pay you for the rights, they don’t have the rights. Simple as that. But I have nothing against reselling and I charge the same rates for resellers as my regular clients.

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Here’s the deal: if the buyer is planning on re-selling your VO they need the rights to it. I would think reselling it does require a full buy-out, but that’s up to you.

You set your rates. So you can for example require anyone reselling your voice overs to pay 50 bucks extra etc. But that would probably cost you a lot of clients.

I just keep it simple: if a seller on Fiverr (for example a video animator) needs a voice for their client, they have to buy commercial rights. If their client is planning on using it for paid ads/tv/radio etc. then they have to buy the broadcast rights instead.

If they don’t pay you for the rights, they don’t have the rights. Simple as that. But I have nothing against reselling and I charge the same rates for resellers as my regular clients.

There was one occascion where someone resold a VO I made without having the rights. I actually followed this up with the client (this was outside of Fiverr) and they lied and said “it was only for internal use to see if they wanted to use it”. Two weeks later I heard my voice over on TV.

I rubbed my hands and thought “this is gonna put food on the table for the next couple of months!” and hired a lawyer. Safe to say, the advertiser never used the agency that stole my VO again, and the original client paid me 4 x the regular fee to compensate me, + the agency had to pay for the cost of legal fees. The matter was settled outside of the courts, but it just goes to show that you can’t let people push you around: make your case, and stick to it.

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All,

I decided to submit a fiverr support ticket and it was eventually ruled that the reseller did need to purchase commercial rights in order o resell my work.

If you ever decide to do this because someone is reselling your work, I recommend being persistent and making a very good case for yourself. The support team on numerous occasions decided my case was resolved without even answering my questions and often more than one fiverr support agents contracdicted each other.

So for whoever said “not to be condescending… rules are VERY clear…” yeah not so much. Even fiverr support was clueless at most points.

All,

I decided to submit a fiverr support ticket and it was eventually ruled that the reseller did need to purchase commercial rights in order o resell my work.

Hurray! Justice is served!! 🥳

So happy you got a satisfying conclusion and resolution to this awful event. Us voice actors really do get shit om and people just expect us to ‘deal with it’ because that’s “how things are” and we shouldn’t complain. We also deserve to be treated like human beings and not be scammed on 24/7. But I do agree with this point that was said-

Revert the prices. Make all prices so that they include commercial rights and if they do not need them, make them contact you and get the custom offer.

A lot of people don’t know that they must buy commercial rights with vo.

If we already have all our fees baked into our base prices, we’ll never have to worry about people like this ever again. Yes it may cost us one or two customers, but we can be dead sure that we’ll never be scanned or swindled again a day in our lives. I might just have to apply this in my own gigs :thinking:

Also!

Two weeks later I heard my voice over on TV.

I rubbed my hands and thought “this is gonna put food on the table for the next couple of months!” and hired a lawyer.

This is evil and I love it :rofl:

Safe to say, the advertiser never used the agency that stole my VO again, and the original client paid me 4 x the regular fee to compensate me, + the agency had to pay for the cost of legal fees.

Celebrations all around! 🥳:two_hearts:

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  • 1 month later...

All good information from every response to this post. My approach is to review the script and if it sounds like a commercial or advertisement I definitely question the buyer. Also, I ask the buyer if this will be placed on a website, social media or be used as an internal video. Then, based on their response I provide the response for the need of commercial or broadcast rights are required. If the buyer doesn't pay those extra gig fees and I find out that they lied to me, that's when I will remind them next time a purchase requires those commercial/broadcast rights fees. If they continue to not pay the appropriate commercial/broadcast fees I will no longer do business with them.  

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Same advice from some other members - factor this into your price. I checked your gigs and I think you have enough reviews to be able to raise your prices anyway. This will get rid of a lot of the bottom feeders. We all know charging industry rates here will scare some people off but being a level 2 seller and charging $5 for 200 words is selling yourself WAY short. Include commercial rights, you can always give custom offers to buyers who don't need commercial. I'd bump up the broadcast rights too. Just advice of course!

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Not to be argumentative, but isn't it a little shady to agree to do a voiceover for an advertisement and then get mad when the client uses the advertisement to advertise? I could be missing something, but a buyer is not going to have an advertisement voiced-over just to play it for their own enjoyment. I agree with several posters here that the commercial rights need to be included in the gig price, but not just for the seller's benefit. I think it is only ethical when offering such a service to the buyer.

Edited by newspoet
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On 7/17/2021 at 1:23 PM, newspoet said:

Not to be argumentative, but isn't it a little shady to agree to do a voiceover for an advertisement and then get mad when the client uses the advertisement to advertise? I could be missing something, but a buyer is not going to have an advertisement voiced-over just to play it for their own enjoyment. I agree with several posters here that the commercial rights need to be included in the gig price, but not just for the seller's benefit. I think it is only ethical when offering such a service to the buyer.

Good point.

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  • 3 months later...

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