Order cancelled by Customer support who violate its own ToS

[cyaxrex]

Well, I don’t want to sound harsh and mistakes do happen but after reading everything it does look like you are trying to defend your work that you delivered with mistakes.

Yes, your buyer could request a revision but that’s not really nice that you didn’t check your work and your code before delivering it :woman_shrugging:

As you say mistakes do happen and writing a code is not easy but to be honest if I’m delivering something I put my reputation on it that it wouldn’t have mistakes from the first delivery (and most cases it’s actually first and last delivery with no revisions). Because I’m responsible for what I’m delivering and your client shouldn’t be checking bugs for you and asking for endless revisions.

“Mistakes happen” is not a reason to deliver unfinished buggy delivery. That’s why you should have quality check in place.

But it’s still up to you if you want to keep fighting it with CS or drop it. From their last answer it did look like they really looked into your order so why would they compensate work that was delivered with mistakes?

(Please note that I’m firm believer that everyone should be paid for quality work they did, however in this case you didn’t really deliver what you promised)

As you say mistakes do happen and writing a code is not easy but to be honest if I’m delivering something I put my reputation on it that it wouldn’t have mistakes from the first delivery (and most cases it’s actually first and last delivery with no revisions). Because I’m responsible for what I’m delivering and your client shouldn’t be checking bugs for you and asking for endless revisions.

This isn’t very fair.

This is a software app. When has Windows or any app, ever been launched without bugs?

Bugs in projects like thus always happen. The buyer identified a bug and the OP was working to resolve it and has made clear that their gig offered multiple revisions for just this kind of situation.

In this case, it is not very fair to suggest that the OP should have delivered a bug-free product first time. For all they know, their buyer could be testing their work on an unsupported OS that doesn’t comply with modern web standards. - Or not. However, there is literally no way to guarantee that there will not be bugs in a first-time delivery of this nature.

[somerandomguy83]

As you say mistakes do happen and writing a code is not easy but to be honest if I’m delivering something I put my reputation on it that it wouldn’t have mistakes from the first delivery (and most cases it’s actually first and last delivery with no revisions). Because I’m responsible for what I’m delivering and your client shouldn’t be checking bugs for you and asking for endless revisions.

This isn’t very fair.

This is a software app. When has Windows or any app, ever been launched without bugs?

Bugs in projects like thus always happen. The buyer identified a bug and the OP was working to resolve it and has made clear that their gig offered multiple revisions for just this kind of situation.

In this case, it is not very fair to suggest that the OP should have delivered a bug-free product first time. For all they know, their buyer could be testing their work on an unsupported OS that doesn’t comply with modern web standards. - Or not. However, there is literally no way to guarantee that there will not be bugs in a first-time delivery of this nature.

Thanks Cyax, this is exactly correct.

Asking for code that has 0 bugs to be written is unrealistic, especially for a web app which can be used on an older browser and its impossible to account for all of them. As Cyax mentions even big companies with multi-million dollar budgets release software that has bugs in it all the time, this is something that should be expected in this field.

And cancelling an order for one bug, after first delivery, this is what really annoys me. And it wasn’t even a bug that made the app to be completely unusable, they say it was because of the frame drops. Well gee, a 3d app for the web that doesn’t have smooth frame rates didn’t pass their test, really ? By this measure you can run Google on an old laptop and say it’s lagging.

Besides, it’s something which I could have addressed because I am finding this out just now. I could have easily worked on improving frame rates if I was given the time or just knew that it was what needed to be done.

This order got cancelled only a few hours after my second delivery (with physics), I didn’t even get the time to figure out what was wrong. The customer opened a dispute by saying the work was buggy right after delivery. I denied his request saying that bugs can be fixed and I can’t just cancel like that and urged him to work together to improve his experience. After he provided a record of a bug and requested a revision I started working on figuring it out but after a few hours the order got cancelled. And that is that

[somerandomguy83]

Well, I guess that settles it then, its perfectly ok for CS to do anything they want.

Fail1005×812 211 KB

wow705×974 161 KB

So take it at face value, you are nothing and your work means nothing, even their own ToS means nothing. Even if you broke no rules and did everything well, the customer is your king and CS will avoid direct questions and contradict each other just down one post like it means nothing just to prove their point.

It could have probably went smoother if I used a different tone, if I grovelled or begged for their assistance, but thats not what this should be about, it seems that rules exist only when it suits them.

[xtivity]

IMO, when it comes to projects like this, I have come to realize clients are more concerned about the overall appearance and functionality of the app, irregardless of the amount of codes you had written, I once had an order in revision for over 9 months due to a known bug in the MRTK Sdk, but I still had to find a way around it. Although my saving grace was that, it was our third Hololens project and they loved the previous two, so they were generous enough to give more time.

Probably the buyer didn’t like the appearance and functionality of the first app you delivered, gave a second chance, didn’t get much from the second app as well, and they concluded you might not be able to give them what they are looking for.

Sorry for the time and effort invested in creating the app and not getting paid.

[uk1000]

I don’t know if adding something/saying you could add something to it to make it run at a more consistent frame rate could have helped, even if that was 30 fps (if consistent ~60 fps isn’t possible with it). eg. some delay/wait to make it a consistent fps if that’s what he/CS thinks is better. Though it’s probably too late for it.

[somerandomguy83]

IMO, when it comes to projects like this, I have come to realize clients are more concerned about the overall appearance and functionality of the app, irregardless of the amount of codes you had written, I once had an order in revision for over 9 months due to a known bug in the MRTK Sdk, but I still had to find a way around it. Although my saving grace was that, it was our third Hololens project and they loved the previous two, so they were generous enough to give more time.

Probably the buyer didn’t like the appearance and functionality of the first app you delivered, gave a second chance, didn’t get much from the second app as well, and they concluded you might not be able to give them what they are looking for.

Sorry for the time and effort invested in creating the app and not getting paid.

Blockquote

IMO, when it comes to projects like this, I have come to realize clients are more concerned about the overall appearance and functionality of the app

Amen to that, but here is the thing, how the heck do you a make a piece of toilet roll exciting ? I knew it wouldnt be, so I even warned the customer about it before starting the project

My main problem was that I had too much trust in CS because I actually had two dealings with them in questionable situations before (you can read my post history) and it came out Ok, I was able to get some sort of reimbursement, even when I made some mistakes ! So I when I was taking this order I knew it wouldnt look amazing and I did think about the possibility that it might go bad, but I thought that if I do my best and stay cool then I’ll get at least something for my effort, boy was I wrong.

[somerandomguy83]

I don’t know if adding something/saying you could add something to it to make it run at a more consistent frame rate could have helped, even if that was 30 fps (if consistent ~60 fps isn’t possible with it). eg. some delay/wait to make it a consistent fps if that’s what he/CS thinks is better. Though it’s probably too late for it.

Blockquote

I don’t know if adding something/saying you could add something to it to make it run at a more consistent frame rate could have helped, even if that was 30 fps (if consistent ~60 fps isn’t possible with it). eg. some delay/wait to make it a consistent fps if that’s what he/CS thinks is better. Though it’s probably too late for it.

No, what I should have done, is not add the FPS meter at all. FPS has no relevance in this project, its not an action shooter, it has very little effect on the overall usability, but I could have made it whatever it needed to be if it ever came up.

Customer said that the unrolling wasnt smooth, so I added the FPS meter to see if it was causing his issue, but as soon as I added it the order got cancelled and I never actually figured out whether it was the FPS or something else. But adding it was a huge mistake, because CS got obsessed over it, however they probably would have found another reason, it probably doesn’t matter all that much either, but it certainly didnt help.

[uk1000]

Blockquote

I don’t know if adding something/saying you could add something to it to make it run at a more consistent frame rate could have helped, even if that was 30 fps (if consistent ~60 fps isn’t possible with it). eg. some delay/wait to make it a consistent fps if that’s what he/CS thinks is better. Though it’s probably too late for it.

No, what I should have done, is not add the FPS meter at all. FPS has no relevance in this project, its not an action shooter, it has very little effect on the overall usability, but I could have made it whatever it needed to be if it ever came up.

Customer said that the unrolling wasnt smooth, so I added the FPS meter to see if it was causing his issue, but as soon as I added it the order got cancelled and I never actually figured out whether it was the FPS or something else. But adding it was a huge mistake, because CS got obsessed over it, however they probably would have found another reason, it probably doesn’t matter all that much either, but it certainly didnt help.

Another issue was the buyer saying the numbers were moving too fast for them to see what they were. Maybe it could have shown min, max & avg fps, or just saved them to a debug file that you could have looked at if that was possible.

Or maybe just shown the buyer the video of it and asked them if it looked smooth enough in the video - or asked him to show you where it didn’t in the video.

[somerandomguy83]

Another issue was the buyer saying the numbers were moving too fast for them to see what they were. Maybe it could have shown min, max & avg fps, or just saved them to a debug file that you could have looked at if that was possible.

Or maybe just shown the buyer the video of it and asked them if it looked smooth enough in the video - or asked him to show you where it didn’t in the video.

Yeah man, but you know as they say “shoulda,woulda,coulda”

Its over now, just learning from mistakes and moving on. And you can learn from mine.

[xtivity]

Blockquote

IMO, when it comes to projects like this, I have come to realize clients are more concerned about the overall appearance and functionality of the app

Amen to that, but here is the thing, how the heck do you a make a piece of toilet roll exciting ? I knew it wouldnt be, so I even warned the customer about it before starting the project

My main problem was that I had too much trust in CS because I actually had two dealings with them in questionable situations before (you can read my post history) and it came out Ok, I was able to get some sort of reimbursement, even when I made some mistakes ! So I when I was taking this order I knew it wouldnt look amazing and I did think about the possibility that it might go bad, but I thought that if I do my best and stay cool then I’ll get at least something for my effort, boy was I wrong.

how the heck do you a make a piece of toilet roll exciting ?

I have learned at times, it’s easier using animation clips, in this case make a spiral anim clip, play clip on scroll down, reverse clip on scroll up, do other things with code, and everyone is happy, lol.

But this is over now, you can turn it to a fun project for yourself, I do that for my cancelled projects