ToS February 2020 Update - did you spot anything new? Plus: Poll - Liability Insurance!

[miiila]

I think I either missed this bit here before or it is new, I can’t recall having read it in any case:

Sellers are responsible for obtaining a general liability insurance policy with coverage amounts that are sufficient to cover all risks associated with the performance of their services.

This calls for a poll (poll is anonymous, you will see the results on voting).

Do you intend to pause/stop/change one or more of your Gigs now that you think about ToS and liability insurance and risks and sufficient coverage and stuff?

• Yes
• No

0voters

[cyaxrex]

I think I either missed this bit here before or it is new, I can’t recall having read it in any case:

Sellers are responsible for obtaining a general liability insurance policy with coverage amounts that are sufficient to cover all risks associated with the performance of their services.

This calls for a poll (poll is anonymous, you will see the results on voting).

Do you intend to pause/stop/change one or more of your Gigs now that you think about ToS and liability insurance and risks and sufficient coverage and stuff?

• Yes
• No

0voters

Sellers are responsible for obtaining a general liability insurance policy with coverage amounts that are sufficient to cover all risks associated with the performance of their services.

I think Fiverr may have made a whoopsie here.

First off, sellers in the U.S. who need liability insurance might want to check out the Freelancers Union. They have a deal starting at $22.50 a month.

freelancersunion.org

Professional Liability Insurance for the Self Employed

Professional liability insurance and general liability insurance for the self employed and freelancers. Get a free quote for professional liability insurance and business liability insurance, and shop for affordable liability insurance coverage.

That said, if you are a freelancer, you will see little benefit from investing in general liability insurance. Here’s why:

General liability insurance (CGL or GL insurance) protects your business from third party claims for bodily injury, associated medical costs, and damage to someone else’s property.

What is likely more appropriate in the context of providing digital services, is Professional Liability Insurance:

Professional liability insurance protects you and your business from claims regarding negligent performance of your professional services, and will defend you even if you haven’t made a mistake, but are faced with unfounded accusations by a client.

There is quite a big difference there…

[meldawn9]

Sellers are responsible for obtaining a general liability insurance policy with coverage amounts that are sufficient to cover all risks associated with the performance of their services.

I think Fiverr may have made a whoopsie here.

First off, sellers in the U.S. who need liability insurance might want to check out the Freelancers Union. They have a deal starting at $22.50 a month.

freelancersunion.org

Professional Liability Insurance for the Self Employed

Professional liability insurance and general liability insurance for the self employed and freelancers. Get a free quote for professional liability insurance and business liability insurance, and shop for affordable liability insurance coverage.

That said, if you are a freelancer, you will see little benefit from investing in general liability insurance. Here’s why:

General liability insurance (CGL or GL insurance) protects your business from third party claims for bodily injury, associated medical costs, and damage to someone else’s property.

What is likely more appropriate in the context of providing digital services, is Professional Liability Insurance:

Professional liability insurance protects you and your business from claims regarding negligent performance of your professional services, and will defend you even if you haven’t made a mistake, but are faced with unfounded accusations by a client.

There is quite a big difference there…

Is this because of California and some of the other states’ laws that say we are employers of Fiverr, not freelancers? I know technically, to Canada’s laws, I am a freelancer and not self-employed (we have a distinction here).

I am wondering if Fiverr is trying to ensure that there is yet one more barrier between them being our employers and us being their employees?

[meldawn9]

Is this because of California and some of the other states’ laws that say we are employers of Fiverr, not freelancers? I know technically, to Canada’s laws, I am a freelancer and not self-employed (we have a distinction here).

I am wondering if Fiverr is trying to ensure that there is yet one more barrier between them being our employers and us being their employees?

BTW, I am reading the TOS. Did anyone see this?

“Fiverr retains the right to use all published delivered works for Fiverr marketing and promotion purposes.”

You can imagine the uproar if our buyers knew!

[cyaxrex]

BTW, I am reading the TOS. Did anyone see this?

“Fiverr retains the right to use all published delivered works for Fiverr marketing and promotion purposes.”

You can imagine the uproar if our buyers knew!

“Fiverr retains the right to use all published delivered works for Fiverr marketing and promotion purposes.”

Well, that undermines the point of anyone ever buying a commercial license.

Is this because of California and some of the other states’ laws that say we are employers of Fiverr, not freelancers?

I think Fiverr is just trying to protect itself from being sued. This and maybe make some $$$$'s.

Before Fiverr started verifying seller IDs, there was no way for a buyer to sue us. Now there is and let’s face it, pretty much all sellers are going to struggle to get global liability insurance when none of us can say we ever interact directly with clients.

Let’s just say it will be very coincidental if Fiverr now comes out with its own approved General Liability Insurance. (Which will be completely pointless for most sellers, as I posted above.) :thinking:

[meldawn9]

“Fiverr retains the right to use all published delivered works for Fiverr marketing and promotion purposes.”

Well, that undermines the point of anyone ever buying a commercial license.

Is this because of California and some of the other states’ laws that say we are employers of Fiverr, not freelancers?

I think Fiverr is just trying to protect itself from being sued. This and maybe make some $$$$'s.

Before Fiverr started verifying seller IDs, there was no way for a buyer to sue us. Now there is and let’s face it, pretty much all sellers are going to struggle to get global liability insurance when none of us can say we ever interact directly with clients.

Let’s just say it will be very coincidental if Fiverr now comes out with its own approved General Liability Insurance. (Which will be completely pointless for most sellers, as I posted above.) :thinking:

I was wondering if they are going to start offering us insurance!

[cyaxrex]

I was wondering if they are going to start offering us insurance!

This would explain why they say we need general as opposed to professional liability insurance. No professional liability insurance company would cover all Fiverr sellers. You could get someone tying to sue saying a psychic reading hasn’t been accurate.

At least with general liability insurance, though, we all get cover if we accidentally cause physical harm to people or property… :roll_eyes:

[meldawn9]

I was wondering if they are going to start offering us insurance!

You know what type of insurance would be good? Insurance that would protect us from scammers, cancelled orders, and chargebacks. I’m looking at my cancelled order page. 25 cancelled orders for the lifetime of me being on Fiverr (2014). I’m counting about $500 there. If it could be $2 a month and I still could have kept that $500, that would be great!

[meldawn9]

This would explain why they say we need general as opposed to professional liability insurance. No professional liability insurance company would cover all Fiverr sellers. You could get someone tying to sue saying a psychic reading hasn’t been accurate.

At least with general liability insurance, though, we all get cover if we accidentally cause physical harm to people or property… :roll_eyes:

I thought I’d check out that insurance. You’re right. There is nothing on there that would really cover us. Because plagiarism would affect the buyer not the seller. I have fire insurance on my place and my computer already. Perhaps the buyer needs to buy insurance too?

[Alex.M]

You know what type of insurance would be good? Insurance that would protect us from scammers, cancelled orders, and chargebacks. I’m looking at my cancelled order page. 25 cancelled orders for the lifetime of me being on Fiverr (2014). I’m counting about $500 there. If it could be $2 a month and I still could have kept that $500, that would be great!

25 cancelled orders

… you are lucky with 25 cancelled orders

[meldawn9]

25 cancelled orders

… you are lucky with 25 cancelled orders

Yes, sadly I know many suffer more.

[mariashtelle1]

Whaaaat?
Seriously fiverr need to at least send notifications when they are updating their terms of service.
That’s quite annoying that you have to read and check them thoroughly every month to see if they didn’t sneak in something new.

Every company including google, Apple, YouTube etc sending out notifications that they updated their Terms of service and “please read it again”. But not like fiverr, basically hiding all changes to the contract that we signed and things we will be liable in the future. You signed one thing and suddenly it became something different even without notifying us. 😡

[meldawn9]

Whaaaat?

Seriously fiverr need to at least send notifications when they are updating their terms of service.

That’s quite annoying that you have to read and check them thoroughly every month to see if they didn’t sneak in something new.

Every company including google, Apple, YouTube etc sending out notifications that they updated their Terms of service and “please read it again”. But not like fiverr, basically hiding all changes to the contract that we signed and things we will be liable in the future. You signed one thing and suddenly it became something different even without notifying us. 😡

Yes, and I even read the part about that logo maker. The buyer of a logo assumes no commercial rights over it.

I just don’t know what they’re thinking…

[pedrito2387]

This would explain why they say we need general as opposed to professional liability insurance. No professional liability insurance company would cover all Fiverr sellers. You could get someone tying to sue saying a psychic reading hasn’t been accurate.

At least with general liability insurance, though, we all get cover if we accidentally cause physical harm to people or property… :roll_eyes:

@cyaxrex accidentally cause physical harm to people or property? what would you consider something like this here on fiverr?

[pedrito2387]

Whaaaat?

Seriously fiverr need to at least send notifications when they are updating their terms of service.

That’s quite annoying that you have to read and check them thoroughly every month to see if they didn’t sneak in something new.

Every company including google, Apple, YouTube etc sending out notifications that they updated their Terms of service and “please read it again”. But not like fiverr, basically hiding all changes to the contract that we signed and things we will be liable in the future. You signed one thing and suddenly it became something different even without notifying us. 😡

@mariashtelle1 agreed! we should all be aware of this every-time they update TOS by a simple message or email.

[miiila]

BTW, I am reading the TOS. Did anyone see this?

“Fiverr retains the right to use all published delivered works for Fiverr marketing and promotion purposes.”

You can imagine the uproar if our buyers knew!

I’ve read that before, so it’s definitely not new but I haven’t seen anyone mention it on the forum yet. I always thought because it’s standard and I’ve seen it in other places too, and because hardly any company makes real use of it without asking the people if they may use x, who usually will gladly agree when being asked.

[miiila]

This would explain why they say we need general as opposed to professional liability insurance. No professional liability insurance company would cover all Fiverr sellers. You could get someone tying to sue saying a psychic reading hasn’t been accurate.

At least with general liability insurance, though, we all get cover if we accidentally cause physical harm to people or property… :roll_eyes:

Do you have to cause the physical harm directly? You could cause physical harm indirectly in quite a few niches.

---

Doesn’t a former Fiverr founder have a modern insurance company these days, actually, called Lemonade?

Maybe Fiverr could work with them and offer good insurance deals for Fiverr freelancers, didn’t they have some kind of health insurance partner offer or something along those lines a while ago … I didn’t look into it as it was just for US people.

As we haven’t heard of any big trouble regarding Fiverr gigs and liability yet, it should be possible to offer an attractive price and yet make money.

[lenasemenkova]

BTW, I am reading the TOS. Did anyone see this?

“Fiverr retains the right to use all published delivered works for Fiverr marketing and promotion purposes.”

You can imagine the uproar if our buyers knew!

“Fiverr retains the right to use all published delivered works for Fiverr marketing and promotion purposes.”

I don’t think it’s either new or unusual. For visual medium, at least.

I’d hope fiverr at least takes into consideration buyers who don’t want the finished product to be displayed publicly, though. There’s even an option available to hide it from the live portfolio. Some use it because they have no idea how the site works, some have legitimate reasons.

[misscrystal]

I see various gigs shown in places besides fiverr as part of their marketing campaigns sometimes.

[annastasiaward]

I asked my insurer about PLI for Fiverr. They asked about jurisdiction and won’t proceed without this info. Fiverr have said:

Fiverr’s Terms of Service cover the legal terms applicable to users of Fiverr. However, we are not able to provide our users with legal advice with respect to the Terms.

We would recommend consulting with an expert on the subject, so they can guide you accurately.

So not sure how I’m supposed to get PLI.

[mariashtelle1]

I asked my insurer about PLI for Fiverr. They asked about jurisdiction and won’t proceed without this info. Fiverr have said:

Fiverr’s Terms of Service cover the legal terms applicable to users of Fiverr. However, we are not able to provide our users with legal advice with respect to the Terms.

We would recommend consulting with an expert on the subject, so they can guide you accurately.

So not sure how I’m supposed to get PLI.

PLI for Fiverr.

I’m not sure how fiverr is connected to PLI insurance.

Fiverr doesn’t provide PLI insurance because they are not an employer. Fiverr is basically one of your customers. It’s just a platform to host your gigs and doesn’t give any privileges like employment.

As for the jurisdiction: fiverr headquarters are based in Israel and they have offices around the globe in some European countries and in the US.

Am I missing something? Do you kid explaining what exactly do you need from fiverr?

[annastasiaward]

PLI for Fiverr.

I’m not sure how fiverr is connected to PLI insurance.

Fiverr doesn’t provide PLI insurance because they are not an employer. Fiverr is basically one of your customers. It’s just a platform to host your gigs and doesn’t give any privileges like employment.

As for the jurisdiction: fiverr headquarters are based in Israel and they have offices around the globe in some European countries and in the US.

Am I missing something? Do you kid explaining what exactly do you need from fiverr?

I wasn’t asking Fiverr to provide me with PLI.

Fiverr’s T&Cs require sellers to have PLI.

As a freelancer I have Public Liability Insurance for my non-Fiverr customers. I asked my insurance company to add my work for clients booked via Fiverr to my PLI. The insurance company then asked if I could confirm the jurisdiction so I asked Fiverr for this information as I couldn’t find it on the site.

[miiila]

Fiverr isn’t your customer, if you want a public liability insurance that covers you completely, in my understanding (like Fiverr support, I can’t and don’t give any legal advice here, all this is just my personal view and may or may not be correct), you’ll need to get, and pay for, a world-wide one, unless you happen to only get Fiverr customers from a few specific countries that your insurance would cover anyway.
Public liabilty insurance might not be enough in any case too, you might need professional liabilty or comprehensive liability insurance, if you want to “feel safe”, the details of what covers or even is called what, vary from company to company, country to country, I think, it’s pretty complicated.

Your insurance should be able to tell you what kind of insurance you need, or they’d recommend, when you tell them in detail how you work on Fiverr, how Fiverr is not your customer but that you get customers from all over the world via Fiverr as a platform and “payment provider”, while you don’t actually/necessarily know the real full names/addresses of your customers, and even can only make a more or less educated guess about their country of residence via their platform profile. If they can’t, they probably need their law department or a lawyer to figure that out.
In general, there are still/yet many tax, insurance, etc., folks who don’t really fully comprehend what the platform economy is and means for them and their clients, and probably also “legislation holes” because of the international character of it all.

As for the info you got from Fiverr, maybe they are telling you to cover yourself like they do, by excluding any kind of liabilty in their terms? Who knows. What’s clear, though, is, that forum members can’t provide others with legal advice with respect to the terms either.

In any case, I’d recommend doing some research like “professional liabilty Fiverr”, “professional liability freelancer”, etc., and read some of the articles that show up to help you decide what you really need/want, then see if your existing company offers it, or if others do, and compare, and then decide for or against.

[misscrystal]

I doubt if any freelancers on fiverr could get a liability policy. Insurance companies have underwriters who work with statistics based on previous things and there aren’t going to be statistics for fiverr sellers available.

If they could get a policy you can be sure it would be written in a way to make it worthless as far as actually doing anything.

I think that statement by fiverr is simply a way of saying fiverr isn’t liable for anything a seller does. All this is guesswork on my part however.

[abhi_shek_20]

fantastic thanks 😍