Search Chaos - I Think I've Figured it Out

[cyaxrex]

Edit: Everything below turned out to be false. It turns out that you can improve/change the focus keywords and SEO titles of gigs. For some reason, my two gigs decided to go AWOL for a few days.

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I’m going to start this with a disclaimer. This is my opinion, based on experiments which I have personally carried out while creating and editing gigs. If you disagree, that is fine.

In short, my sales have been falling off a cliff for a while. All of my old best-selling gigs have become my poorest selling. Lately, they haven’t been selling at all.

Now, though, I think I understand why gigs die. The only problem is that when gigs die, it looks like sellers might have to let them go and just create new gigs. - Even if that means essentially starting out as a new seller. (i.e. Losing all of your existing gig reviews.)

In short, it all (seems) to come down to the original URL created when you create a gig for the first time.

As a case in point, back in 2017, I created my cryptocurrency content gig. This quickly became my best seller and I think I am still the best selling in terms of overall reviews and ratings. However, when I created my crypto gig back in 2017, I crafted the original gig title and description in accordance with then trending search terms on Fiverr and Google.

These search terms were ’cryptocurrency content, Bitcoin content,' and ’cryptocurrency writing.' Immediately, my gig appeared in top trending searches and I received what was then a very welcome influx of orders.

Then, last year, something changed. Suddenly, I had no new buyers, just regulars. I assumed that this was because so-called ‘crypto winter’ was in full-force. However, now that crypto winter is over. It has started to annoy me how my orders are still very lackluster. So, I started doing some digging…

As is completely natural, the current best-selling crypto writing gigs are ranking for different keywords for my own. Times change and cryptocurrency is a good example of this.

In 2017, a lot of people thought that the term ‘Bitcoin’ was a kind of abbreviation for cryptocurrency. Now times have changed and very few people search for “Bitcoin content,” which is a search term I originally ranked well for. In this case, I decided to update my gig title, description, everything.

Sadly, my crypto gig is just as lost in the search as ever. It seems that I cannot rank, however much I try for different keyword terms. The original terms seem to stay hardcoded into the gig and gigs you try to update either fall out of the search completely or appear in obscure areas where no one is ever going to find them.

To test this, I recently created three new gigs, all targeting different niches and all designed to rank for different keyword phrases. Immediately after creating these new gigs, I was able to find them in the search (as I expected) quite easily.

• I used the same keyword placement strategy in gig titles and descriptions
• I used the same strategy of targeting a specific category and keyword phrase to rank for
• I presented all my gigs the same way with fully fleshed out FAQ sections and nice new images.

However, no matter what I do, I can not get an old gig to rank for new keywords and/or gig subcategories, no matter how much I try. - An old gig is essentially a dead gig.

Naturally, one solution to this problem (though it is a bit late for me) is to NEVER update gigs. However, this isn’t really a long-term solution. At least, not unless you offer a very niche service.

• Keywords people use to search for services do change over time
• Fiverr adds and removes categories and subcategories, which forces sellers to update gigs

In the end, many older sellers are going to find themselves in the position where new buyers become scarce and they need to update gigs. Then, like me, they are going to have to face a certain dilemma. Do they keep on swinging a dead cat trying to kick new life into an old gig, or do they just delete/pause an old gig and create a new one which is guaranteed to get far better search exposure?

Personally, feel quite put out by the idea of having to surrender hundreds of reviews. In this case, has anyone else ever found a solution to this problem? One idea I have is to create a new version of two existing gigs, before linking in new gig descriptions to old gigs to say, “look, here, I have reviews, I’m not new!” (Just not using that exact choice of words.) However, Fiverr doesn’t like duplicate gigs. In this case, could I link to a paused gig?

Any practical advice would be appreciated! 🙂

[misscrystal]

Interesting thoughts. My usual best selling love spell doesn’t go out of style but maybe when there are dozens of gigs that have copied the title, description or both it degrades it in the ranks of search terms. Unfortunately anything, any gig I make is going to be copied mercilessly. At least you have a chance to update and create new gigs with new search terms and keywords.

[miiila]

I think that, in theory, the SEO title, the 5 tags, and your use of search term within the description (after all, there must be a reason why you’re not allowed to use certain terms more than 3x or whatever, and the reason can only be that they, at least in theory, effect the search results) are supposed to catch the fall of gigs when changing times require changed search terms. However, at least the tag system seems broken, recently when I was looking for something else, I noticed that only 4 of my 5 tags were showing (and I didn’t check the other gigs), and if that missing tag happens to be one that matters … and I believe I saw several threads by people posting about tags not showing or not showing completely.

It could be that the hard-coded URL has a higher weight generally, anyway, than any of the other factors, so your theory might make sense in cases where sellers chose more specific URLs rather than general/generic ones, especially if other search-relevant elements like SEO title and/or tags don’t just have a lower weighting but also don’t work right.
Alas, all this must remain speculation as we’re never completely aware of what works as intended and what not, and it doesn’t look as if we’ll ever get any hints about what things carry which weight. The algorithm’s mystery must continue.

Search seems to be a permanently chaotic entity in either case, whenever I did some search experiments, there were too many objectively irrelevant results, and, again, we don’t know if anyone works on fine tuning, or if it has been decided it’s good enough as is.

Have you ever tried to test with gigs that have your perfect search terms in URL vs SEO title vs tags? It’s complicated, though, because you can’t create/publish duplicate gigs, so you’d need to test these things on different kinds of gigs.

Another choice of words or a link to a paused gig … don’t know … would all result in a bit of a clumsy look and feel, I fear. People can see your old gigs’ reviews in your profile, so maybe it could work to not point back to the old gigs but to stress that you aren’t new and to make the new-ness of the new ones a selling point? Something along the lines of “NEW crypto content gig, now also for (list the crypto currencies du jour)”.

[cyaxrex]

I think that, in theory, the SEO title, the 5 tags, and your use of search term within the description (after all, there must be a reason why you’re not allowed to use certain terms more than 3x or whatever, and the reason can only be that they, at least in theory, effect the search results) are supposed to catch the fall of gigs when changing times require changed search terms. However, at least the tag system seems broken, recently when I was looking for something else, I noticed that only 4 of my 5 tags were showing (and I didn’t check the other gigs), and if that missing tag happens to be one that matters … and I believe I saw several threads by people posting about tags not showing or not showing completely.

It could be that the hard-coded URL has a higher weight generally, anyway, than any of the other factors, so your theory might make sense in cases where sellers chose more specific URLs rather than general/generic ones, especially if other search-relevant elements like SEO title and/or tags don’t just have a lower weighting but also don’t work right.

Alas, all this must remain speculation as we’re never completely aware of what works as intended and what not, and it doesn’t look as if we’ll ever get any hints about what things carry which weight. The algorithm’s mystery must continue.

Search seems to be a permanently chaotic entity in either case, whenever I did some search experiments, there were too many objectively irrelevant results, and, again, we don’t know if anyone works on fine tuning, or if it has been decided it’s good enough as is.

Have you ever tried to test with gigs that have your perfect search terms in URL vs SEO title vs tags? It’s complicated, though, because you can’t create/publish duplicate gigs, so you’d need to test these things on different kinds of gigs.

Another choice of words or a link to a paused gig … don’t know … would all result in a bit of a clumsy look and feel, I fear. People can see your old gigs’ reviews in your profile, so maybe it could work to not point back to the old gigs but to stress that you aren’t new and to make the new-ness of the new ones a selling point? Something along the lines of “NEW crypto content gig, now also for (list the crypto currencies du jour)”.

Have you ever tried to test with gigs that have your perfect search terms in URL vs SEO title vs tags? It’s complicated, though, because you can’t create/publish duplicate gigs, so you’d need to test these things on different kinds of gigs.

Yes, this is the basic point of my post. I can rank any new gig I create anywhere I want it in the search. (Within reason). Old gigs which I try to edit/upgrade just get thrown out of the search never to be seen or heard from again.

The URL created when you create a gig, is the SEO title. Fiverr doesn’t initially give you an option to set a specific SEO title when you are first setting up a gig. Only after you have published a gig can you change this.

For example, I created this gig a few days ago:

When I created it, there was no way to set an SEO title. Instead, the title of the gig which is hardcoded into the URL when a gig is created became the SEO title.

Now I can change this. However, when I do this on any other gig, I might as well kiss it farewell and send it off to the trenches.

If there is a lesson here, it is (arguably) to never change the SEO title.

As it is, I am just going to create two new gigs to replace my old bestsellers but, leave the old gigs active. Of course, I’ll make what I offer slightly different.

[miiila]

I wasn’t sure if you had tried search terms in only the URL vs only the SEO title vs only the tags. What I meant was putting “cannabis” and “articles” only into the URL for Gig 1 (but not in the SEO title or tags) and only in the SEO title (but not in the URL or tags) for Gig 2.
Doesn’t make sense to do that for a real gig, of course (as you need the keywords in the URL as you can’t change that later), but it would be the only way to see if there is a difference in weight for the search results. Would the gig with the keywords only in the URL get a higher position than that with the keywords not in the URL but only in the SEO title, or would you find both in a similar search position, or would the Gig with no keywords in the URL but only in SEO title or tags be not found at all, etc. …

Yes, I know, at first you create your URL, dense with keywords, then you change the gig title to a human-friendly “I will …” construct, then you change your SEO title (at least I do; I guess, depending on what your URL is, some people might leave the “auto-SEO title” untouched).

I have changed SEO titles as well as edited old gigs and they still worked. I’m not sure about their search performance development though, as I don’t search for them usually, as long as I get orders. My oldest gig still sells, and I’ve edited it several times, of course, including the SEO title.

I did delete quite a few gigs, including one that I had on pause which had my second highest number of reviews some time ago, to declutter and to not cling to old things that didn’t work or I didn’t like anymore, it can be good and freeing to work from a blank canvas (disclaimer: I wouldn’t recommend anyone doing that just because someone else did it, only do it if you really feel it, it’s probably a good idea to keep one’s bestsellers, if on pause or active, with new gigs being different, of course, duplicate gigs, for good reasons, not being allowed).

You can never know, old bestsellers may gather pace again someday; while times change, some things go around in circles.

I’d like to experiment more, it’s rather interesting, but it takes so much time to do meaningful experiments over a stretch of time, many of my “I’d like to test this” drafts never see the light of day, and some get paused again because I’m too impatient or they were in some way inconvenient “in practice” when actually ordered, and I put them on the back burner to “rethink them when I get time” …

Hope you figured out the best way to go ahead in either case, whether the URL now is the most important factor or not.

[cyaxrex]

I wasn’t sure if you had tried search terms in only the URL vs only the SEO title vs only the tags. What I meant was putting “cannabis” and “articles” only into the URL for Gig 1 (but not in the SEO title or tags) and only in the SEO title (but not in the URL or tags) for Gig 2.

Doesn’t make sense to do that for a real gig, of course (as you need the keywords in the URL as you can’t change that later), but it would be the only way to see if there is a difference in weight for the search results. Would the gig with the keywords only in the URL get a higher position than that with the keywords not in the URL but only in the SEO title, or would you find both in a similar search position, or would the Gig with no keywords in the URL but only in SEO title or tags be not found at all, etc. …

Yes, I know, at first you create your URL, dense with keywords, then you change the gig title to a human-friendly “I will …” construct, then you change your SEO title (at least I do; I guess, depending on what your URL is, some people might leave the “auto-SEO title” untouched).

I have changed SEO titles as well as edited old gigs and they still worked. I’m not sure about their search performance development though, as I don’t search for them usually, as long as I get orders. My oldest gig still sells, and I’ve edited it several times, of course, including the SEO title.

I did delete quite a few gigs, including one that I had on pause which had my second highest number of reviews some time ago, to declutter and to not cling to old things that didn’t work or I didn’t like anymore, it can be good and freeing to work from a blank canvas (disclaimer: I wouldn’t recommend anyone doing that just because someone else did it, only do it if you really feel it, it’s probably a good idea to keep one’s bestsellers, if on pause or active, with new gigs being different, of course, duplicate gigs, for good reasons, not being allowed).

You can never know, old bestsellers may gather pace again someday; while times change, some things go around in circles.

I’d like to experiment more, it’s rather interesting, but it takes so much time to do meaningful experiments over a stretch of time, many of my “I’d like to test this” drafts never see the light of day, and some get paused again because I’m too impatient or they were in some way inconvenient “in practice” when actually ordered, and I put them on the back burner to “rethink them when I get time” …

Hope you figured out the best way to go ahead in either case, whether the URL now is the most important factor or not.

Well, I didn’t figure it out. However, everything has fixed itself. - Kind of.

I was creating images for a new crypto gig. Then I decided to visit the help center. (I was very upset about my reviews.) There, I found by using the gig status checker, that the two gigs in question were pending review by Fiverr. (Though on my gig page, it said I had no gigs pending review.)

So, then I started opening a ticket to CS. Then, thankfully, Chico said in a rather stern voice that he wanted to go for a walk.So, we did that. Then before I send my ticket to CS, I checked my gigs again, only to find them all active. Even better, the two gigs in question now rank exactly where I wanted them to in the search. - Kind of.

They’re each on the last page, but when there are only 2 or 3 pages of results in the niche you are targeting, that is a pretty big improvement from being last on page 18. 😉

I’ll edit my original post now. I would say that the whole thread should be removed. However, this is a kind of Fiver search/SEO success story. In this case, I’ll leave it. ,

[miiila]

So … Chico figured it out, kind of! You owe him a treat and a really long walk tomorrow.

[cyaxrex]

So … Chico figured it out, kind of! You owe him a treat and a really long walk tomorrow.

You owe him a treat and a really long walk tomorrow.

My dog is more pampered than your average Pharaoh. Don’t encourage him. 😉

[misscrystal]

It sounds like Chico not only knows your moods well and how to deal with them, but is also psychic.

[fast_editing]

this is 1000000% true…
i think, fiverr algo maker have to think and consider about it rather than sellers are broking their head on it.
i lost my all sells since 7 month

[uk1000]

Have you ever tried to test with gigs that have your perfect search terms in URL vs SEO title vs tags? It’s complicated, though, because you can’t create/publish duplicate gigs, so you’d need to test these things on different kinds of gigs.

Yes, this is the basic point of my post. I can rank any new gig I create anywhere I want it in the search. (Within reason). Old gigs which I try to edit/upgrade just get thrown out of the search never to be seen or heard from again.

The URL created when you create a gig, is the SEO title. Fiverr doesn’t initially give you an option to set a specific SEO title when you are first setting up a gig. Only after you have published a gig can you change this.

For example, I created this gig a few days ago:

When I created it, there was no way to set an SEO title. Instead, the title of the gig which is hardcoded into the URL when a gig is created became the SEO title.

Now I can change this. However, when I do this on any other gig, I might as well kiss it farewell and send it off to the trenches.

If there is a lesson here, it is (arguably) to never change the SEO title.

As it is, I am just going to create two new gigs to replace my old bestsellers but, leave the old gigs active. Of course, I’ll make what I offer slightly different.

When I created it, there was no way to set an SEO title. Instead, the title of the gig which is hardcoded into the URL when a gig is created became the SEO title.

Wouldn’t it be hardcoded if the specific URL was part of the source code of the program not really otherwise? ie. if the URL was based on a title you enter it’s not really hardcoded I think.

[misscrystal]

It’s not the title that matters or all the copies of my gigs, along with all the gigs that have copied my title, would all be lined up together next to each other.

[cyaxrex]

It sounds like Chico not only knows your moods well and how to deal with them, but is also psychic.

You don’t have to be psychic to know that no work means no food. 😉

Chico is psychic, though. We have a mobile grocery store which comes every Monday, Wednesday, and Friday. Just before it comes, Chico gets restless because he knows he his about to get his biggest treat in the world. Bizarrely, that’s a tin of marrow fat peas. (He is crazy for them.)

Last week, Chico started going marrow fat pea crazy at midday on Thursday. I even stated to worry that he had Chihuahua Alzheimers. Then the van came and the owner told me it was because the street was going to be closed the next day.

Sadly, it is very difficult to tell a Chihuahua that if they can just pick the right six numbers on a lottery ticket, they can have all the marrow fat peas they want. 😦

[misscrystal]

You don’t have to be psychic to know that no work means no food. 😉

Chico is psychic, though. We have a mobile grocery store which comes every Monday, Wednesday, and Friday. Just before it comes, Chico gets restless because he knows he his about to get his biggest treat in the world. Bizarrely, that’s a tin of marrow fat peas. (He is crazy for them.)

Last week, Chico started going marrow fat pea crazy at midday on Thursday. I even stated to worry that he had Chihuahua Alzheimers. Then the van came and the owner told me it was because the street was going to be closed the next day.

Sadly, it is very difficult to tell a Chihuahua that if they can just pick the right six numbers on a lottery ticket, they can have all the marrow fat peas they want. 😦

Animals can be very psychic. At Big Cat Rescue in Florida, when the Superbowl game is about to happen, they have one big cat in particular, a tiger, choose who the winner will be by putting into her enclosure two large papier mache animals with the names of each team on them and seeing which one she chooses to attack. So far she has always been right.

They could probably choose the lottery numbers if the right method was found.

(you can skip to 15:40 to get right to the good part)

[cyaxrex]

Animals can be very psychic. At Big Cat Rescue in Florida, when the Superbowl game is about to happen, they have one big cat in particular, a tiger, choose who the winner will be by putting into her enclosure two large papier mache animals with the names of each team on them and seeing which one she chooses to attack. So far she has always been right.

They could probably choose the lottery numbers if the right method was found.

(you can skip to 15:40 to get right to the good part)

They could probably choose the lottery numbers if the right method was found.

I’ve brainstormed it. I’d need at least 46 million paper mache fences, lampposts, and weeds with numbers on for Chico to selectively wee against. As it is, I simply don’t have that kind o capital… 😦

[uk1000]

Animals can be very psychic. At Big Cat Rescue in Florida, when the Superbowl game is about to happen, they have one big cat in particular, a tiger, choose who the winner will be by putting into her enclosure two large papier mache animals with the names of each team on them and seeing which one she chooses to attack. So far she has always been right.

They could probably choose the lottery numbers if the right method was found.

(you can skip to 15:40 to get right to the good part)

But the tiger goes to the other one at 17:03. So isn’t it really picking both? Isn’t it probably more like a random pick or the colours or which was the nearest at the time and not really picking who will actually win?

If it really was psychic couldn’t they earn millions from it but they don’t?

[uk1000]

Also maybe at around 2:45, where the woman says “we’re not trying to rig this in any way”, the woman sprays more perfume or whatever it is on the one the tiger picks. If the people already know the favourite to win the game at that time (which I’m sure they did), and she sprays more on the favourite to win, the tiger might be more likely to go and pick that first because of the stronger scent? The favourite team (who they would have known before the video) won.

[uk1000]

(post withdrawn by author, will be automatically deleted in 24 hours unless flagged)

Since there’s a similar video of how the tigers like “obsession” scent maybe a similar/same thing as what is sprayed by the woman who seems to spend a lot more time spraying the side that got picked with that, and since that was the favourite side to win, it seems the most likely explanation of why the tiger picked that one.

It’s just done for fun.

But you seemed to be saying this tiger was actually psychic, when it really seems much more likely that it was rigged/not really psychic at all.

Animals can be very psychic. At Big Cat Rescue in Florida, when the Superbowl game is about to happen

[uk1000]

(post withdrawn by author, will be automatically deleted in 24 hours unless flagged)

I hope you can find things in a more lighthearted vein and not take things so seriously when that wasn’t intended to be serious.

Okay but maybe if emojis are added it will be more obvious when it’s not supposed to be serious 🙂