New quality reviews for Top Rated Sellers

[lenasemenkova]

That works well for me and for my clients. None seem to mind when I offer extras and most do go ahead and get at least one.

I do understand that there have been people who have complained a few times on the forum that they had a seller say the price was more than the gig was showing but usually either the buyer wanted more work than he paid for, or it was said in a message to a buyer before he placed an order.

So clarification on this would be appreciated as to how it relates to offering extras;

Make sure you can deliver work within the timeframes and prices you defined in your Gig’s description. ’

I always make it clear that extras are an option for them and not required. If they choose not to get them that’s perfectly ok. But now it sounds too risky to suggest them.

Sounds to me like you can get demoted for having a few complaints about making buyers pay more whatever the reason for the price increase was.

I don’t like the “within the timeframes of your gig description” part as well. Hopefully, it’s about specifically delivering late, not asking for a deadline extension once a month when the buyer doesn’t mind.

[misscrystal]

Sounds to me like you can get demoted for having a few complaints about making buyers pay more whatever the reason for the price increase was.

I don’t like the “within the timeframes of your gig description” part as well. Hopefully, it’s about specifically delivering late, not asking for a deadline extension once a month when the buyer doesn’t mind.

Sounds to me like you can get demoted for having a few complaints about making buyers pay more whatever the reason for the price increase was.

Or not even having any complaints, just having someone from fiverr see you offered extras. And it only applies to top rated sellers.

Of course I can deliver work as shown in my gig description for the price I mentioned. I do it all the time. I just wonder if mentioning extras to my clients is not allowed.

[lenasemenkova]

Sounds to me like you can get demoted for having a few complaints about making buyers pay more whatever the reason for the price increase was.

Or not even having any complaints, just having someone from fiverr see you offered extras. And it only applies to top rated sellers.

Of course I can deliver work as shown in my gig description for the price I mentioned. I do it all the time. I just wonder if mentioning extras to my clients is not allowed.

just having someone from fiverr see you offered extras.

Well, in that case I can’t see how Fiverr expects me to keep selling on the platform. There is a tool that was specifically created to deal with buyers wanting more work and somehow I’m supposed to a) never use it while the others can b) figure out by myself that I’m not supposed to use it.

I hope it’s not the case.

[misscrystal]

just having someone from fiverr see you offered extras.

Well, in that case I can’t see how Fiverr expects me to keep selling on the platform. There is a tool that was specifically created to deal with buyers wanting more work and somehow I’m supposed to a) never use it while the others can b) figure out by myself that I’m not supposed to use it.

I hope it’s not the case.

Well we will have to hope Frank gives us the answer after he talks to his SM. I don’t know what else to do. In the meantime I’m not going to suggest extras.

[miiila]

@frank_d It sounds like we can’t offer extras:

Set the right expectations: Make sure you can deliver work within the timeframes and prices you defined in your Gig’s description. ’

Maybe if you think of it you could ask your SM if we are allowed to suggest extras after the order is placed? Thanks (I don’t have an SM to ask.)

Set the right expectations: Make sure you can deliver work within the timeframes and prices you defined in your Gig’s description. ’

I’m not sure how you get to not being allowed to offer extras, I’m not reading that as not offering extras but as refraining from bait-and-switch tactics, i. e. asking for a higher price for something that should only cost amount X, according to the gig description. We’ve seen more than one buyer complaining about bait-and-switch, so I think that’s the more probable interpretation.

For that and a lot of things, like someone else already said, I’m also not sure either if those things are a big problem with TRSs, and random quality checks might do even more good with the lower levels but I guess there are some TRSs who engage in some not so desirable things, and of course Fiverr won’t want buyers to experience such especially from TRSs.

And for the timeframe, obviously you should stick to the time frame for directly ordered gigs (or if you can’t, pause them), while custom offers, IMO, are a different thing and not meant by this.

[misscrystal]

Set the right expectations: Make sure you can deliver work within the timeframes and prices you defined in your Gig’s description. ’

I’m not sure how you get to not being allowed to offer extras, I’m not reading that as not offering extras but as refraining from bait-and-switch tactics, i. e. asking for a higher price for something that should only cost amount X, according to the gig description. We’ve seen more than one buyer complaining about bait-and-switch, so I think that’s the more probable interpretation.

For that and a lot of things, like someone else already said, I’m also not sure either if those things are a big problem with TRSs, and random quality checks might do even more good with the lower levels but I guess there are some TRSs who engage in some not so desirable things, and of course Fiverr won’t want buyers to experience such especially from TRSs.

And for the timeframe, obviously you should stick to the time frame for directly ordered gigs (or if you can’t, pause them), while custom offers, IMO, are a different thing and not meant by this.

asking for a higher price for something that should only cost amount X, according to the gig description.

I offer various enhancements to the basic order. Is that “bait and switch”? For now at least I’m not going to do that.

[steve_maxell]

Interesting indeed…makes you wonder if they do take note on these forums.

[misscrystal]

Interesting indeed…makes you wonder if they do take note on these forums.

It seems strange that cy had a post about Pros and TRS he said he saw not doing things right. He was mostly talking about outsourcing.

[lenasemenkova]

Well we will have to hope Frank gives us the answer after he talks to his SM. I don’t know what else to do. In the meantime I’m not going to suggest extras.

I have a jackpot on my hands: a $160 custom offer with a buyer who usually takes a week or so to respond. She messaged me recently telling me that one of the concepts will need to be redone at some point. She acknowledged it was her idea that didn’t work, I reminded her about the extra for the new concept, she didn’t mind. I also let her know I was travelling on 8-9th and wouldn’t be available.

The order is completed but in a limbo of sorts. We’ll see what happens on the 16th.

[miiila]

asking for a higher price for something that should only cost amount X, according to the gig description.

I offer various enhancements to the basic order. Is that “bait and switch”? For now at least I’m not going to do that.

If the gig description says the buyer gets a, b, and c for $x and buy the gig, the seller shouldn’t tell them they need to pay $y.

Upselling, like if the seller offers them d in addition to what the gig description specifies as the gig specs because they think the buyer could benefit from also buying d, for an additional $y, that should fall under Fiverr’s “upselling” and not “bait-and-switch” and be okay. I’m not sure though about upselling after someone already bought a gig, because I don’t do that, so I didn’t think about it or ask support. Any eventual upselling I do would be while discussing a custom offer prior to the order.

The only time I “upsold” after someone placed an order directly was when they ordered a gig for less words than they sent. Which should be perfectly fine. If a buyer wants more than a gig offers, they should contact sellers for custom offers, that’s why we have that slider turned on, that we accept custom offers.

[misscrystal]

If the gig description says the buyer gets a, b, and c for $x and buy the gig, the seller shouldn’t tell them they need to pay $y.

Upselling, like if the seller offers them d in addition to what the gig description specifies as the gig specs because they think the buyer could benefit from also buying d, for an additional $y, that should fall under Fiverr’s “upselling” and not “bait-and-switch” and be okay. I’m not sure though about upselling after someone already bought a gig, because I don’t do that, so I didn’t think about it or ask support. Any eventual upselling I do would be while discussing a custom offer prior to the order.

The only time I “upsold” after someone placed an order directly was when they ordered a gig for less words than they sent. Which should be perfectly fine. If a buyer wants more than a gig offers, they should contact sellers for custom offers, that’s why we have that slider turned on, that we accept custom offers.

If the gig description says the buyer gets a, b, and c for $x and buy the gig, the seller shouldn’t tell them they need to pay $y.

Upselling, like if the seller offers them d in addition to what the gig description specifies as the gig specs because they think the buyer could benefit from also buying d, for an additional $y, that should fall under Fiverr’s “upselling” and not “bait-and-switch” and be okay.

Yes, sounds correct. So how do you offer the extras to the buyer? I mean so it doesn’t sound like they are being told they need that extra? Do you say to them:

“You have chosen to get the basic gig. I suggest that you also purchase the extra feature.”

Is that wording ok? Is that bait and switch or upselling? I hope we get this clarified, since offering extras is important and has been encouraged and sellers do it who are not top rated sellers also.

[danno1950]

Heard back from my SM.

They asked to see the email (since they don’t know everything that’s going on)

I forwarded the email and they then told me I have nothing to worry about.

We are still on for a call tomorrow, as I still need more info, a more formal breakdown.

If there’s a new tool of evaluation, I need to know more parameters than what the email included.

I forwarded the email and they then told me I have nothing to worry about.

I got the same email. I’m glad to hear that for you, Frank! I don’t think they’re out to create hassles for reputable TRS sellers. The message talks about being demoted to Level 2 when your service doesn’t meet the TRS expectations repeatedly, “in the course of your monthly evaluation.” I think this is key - TRS sellers get evaluated every month anyway, so I took this more as a reminder to keep up the standard, but not foreshadowing a big demotion process coming up.

I don’t think anyone needs to worry about this unless they routinely outsource orders like was being discussed in another thread.

I agree with @cyaxrex, this sounds like it’s potentially in response to the outsourcing of orders without letting the buyer know what’s going on, which is being discussed in this thread:

https://forum.fiverr.com/t/trs-fiverr-pro-outsourcing-and-the-potential-for-buyer-backlash

[uk1000]

That works well for me and for my clients. None seem to mind when I offer extras and most do go ahead and get at least one.

I do understand that there have been people who have complained a few times on the forum that they had a seller say the price was more than the gig was showing but usually either the buyer wanted more work than he paid for, or it was said in a message to a buyer before he placed an order.

So clarification on this would be appreciated as to how it relates to offering extras;

Make sure you can deliver work within the timeframes and prices you defined in your Gig’s description. ’

I always make it clear that extras are an option for them and not required. If they choose not to get them that’s perfectly ok. But now it sounds too risky to suggest them.

I always make it clear that extras are an option for them and not required

Though isn’t the candles extra required on some gigs?

[lenasemenkova]

In the semi-related news, I’m in Berlin right now and Fiverr’s ads are all over the city center. I counted 10+ just on my way to the hotel. The advertising campaign looks pretty huge.

[miiila]

If the gig description says the buyer gets a, b, and c for $x and buy the gig, the seller shouldn’t tell them they need to pay $y.

Upselling, like if the seller offers them d in addition to what the gig description specifies as the gig specs because they think the buyer could benefit from also buying d, for an additional $y, that should fall under Fiverr’s “upselling” and not “bait-and-switch” and be okay.

Yes, sounds correct. So how do you offer the extras to the buyer? I mean so it doesn’t sound like they are being told they need that extra? Do you say to them:

“You have chosen to get the basic gig. I suggest that you also purchase the extra feature.”

Is that wording ok? Is that bait and switch or upselling? I hope we get this clarified, since offering extras is important and has been encouraged and sellers do it who are not top rated sellers also.

It’s all about the wording. Giving a good reason why they might benefit from or like your extra d or e, and putting it out there as a suggestion, without sounding pushy. I wouldn’t simply suggest an extra without a good reason. For example, if a buyer buys a gig that’s for Word format but they have a PDF file, I might tell them I could also work directly in their PDF, so they’d get PDF format back instead of Word and losing their time copy-pasting from the Word doc into their PDF.

As I see it, there should be an actual advantage for the buyer which I’d try to communicate, not just the advantage for the seller, that they buy an extra. Communicating a win-win, if you will.

There’s a weird stationery store chain here. You buy something and inevitably, the cashier will mumble something like “We have gel pens on offer today” (they are embarrassed because the chain forces them to try to upsell customers random things). I never ever need anything that they have on offer when I’m paying for my items. However, if I bought, say, a black printer cartridge and they’d tell me they happen to have the colour cartridge on offer at the moment, which I had missed while being focused on buying the black one, I might buy it.

“You have chosen to get the basic gig. I suggest that you also purchase the extra feature.”

I wouldn’t do this. It’s not bait-and-switch but won’t make anyone feel good, could sound a bit like a reproach for “only” having bought the basic gig to some people, and you don’t give a compelling reason with the 2nd sentence. I’m thinking more of something along the lines of “Would you like … as well? It intensifies the … and it’s just additional $x. If not, that’s fine, of course, just tell me if you’d like that extra.”

[danno1950]

In the semi-related news, I’m in Berlin right now and Fiverr’s ads are all over the city center. I counted 10+ just on my way to the hotel. The advertising campaign looks pretty huge.

Now that’s pretty cool! Thanks for letting us know!

[misscrystal]

It’s all about the wording. Giving a good reason why they might benefit from or like your extra d or e, and putting it out there as a suggestion, without sounding pushy. I wouldn’t simply suggest an extra without a good reason. For example, if a buyer buys a gig that’s for Word format but they have a PDF file, I might tell them I could also work directly in their PDF, so they’d get PDF format back instead of Word and losing their time copy-pasting from the Word doc into their PDF.

As I see it, there should be an actual advantage for the buyer which I’d try to communicate, not just the advantage for the seller, that they buy an extra. Communicating a win-win, if you will.

There’s a weird stationery store chain here. You buy something and inevitably, the cashier will mumble something like “We have gel pens on offer today” (they are embarrassed because the chain forces them to try to upsell customers random things). I never ever need anything that they have on offer when I’m paying for my items. However, if I bought, say, a black printer cartridge and they’d tell me they happen to have the colour cartridge on offer at the moment, which I had missed while being focused on buying the black one, I might buy it.

“You have chosen to get the basic gig. I suggest that you also purchase the extra feature.”

I wouldn’t do this. It’s not bait-and-switch but won’t make anyone feel good, could sound a bit like a reproach for “only” having bought the basic gig to some people, and you don’t give a compelling reason with the 2nd sentence. I’m thinking more of something along the lines of “Would you like … as well? It intensifies the … and it’s just additional $x. If not, that’s fine, of course, just tell me if you’d like that extra.”

That sounds like good advice, thanks. I’m going to work on that. I always appreciate some sound advice.

People are always very grateful when I offer the extra and thank me. I didn’t get bad reactions, but you’re right, I need to adjust the wording. They often ask me if they need to get anything else. I guess I have unusually nice clients.

[miiila]

That sounds like good advice, thanks. I’m going to work on that. I always appreciate some sound advice.

People are always very grateful when I offer the extra and thank me. I didn’t get bad reactions, but you’re right, I need to adjust the wording. They often ask me if they need to get anything else. I guess I have unusually nice clients.

That’s probably the niche. In the “business categories”, usually people have a good idea of what they want and need, I can see people in the lifestyle category being unsure of what they actually should get.

And you probably only get “private purchases”, that’s a difference too, people in your niche aren’t there about some business thing that they need to get out of the way but to do themselves something good, that’s a whole different mood, I guess. On the other hand, that also probably contributes to you having to spend more time on “chatting”, business customers often have more of a time is money approach.

[misscrystal]

That’s probably the niche. In the “business categories”, usually people have a good idea of what they want and need, I can see people in the lifestyle category being unsure of what they actually should get.

And you probably only get “private purchases”, that’s a difference too, people in your niche aren’t there about some business thing that they need to get out of the way but to do themselves something good, that’s a whole different mood, I guess. On the other hand, that also probably contributes to you having to spend more time on “chatting”, business customers often have more of a time is money approach.

Yes again you are correct. They appreciate being told what to get.

[misscrystal]

I forwarded the email and they then told me I have nothing to worry about.

I got the same email. I’m glad to hear that for you, Frank! I don’t think they’re out to create hassles for reputable TRS sellers. The message talks about being demoted to Level 2 when your service doesn’t meet the TRS expectations repeatedly, “in the course of your monthly evaluation.” I think this is key - TRS sellers get evaluated every month anyway, so I took this more as a reminder to keep up the standard, but not foreshadowing a big demotion process coming up.

I don’t think anyone needs to worry about this unless they routinely outsource orders like was being discussed in another thread.

I agree with @cyaxrex, this sounds like it’s potentially in response to the outsourcing of orders without letting the buyer know what’s going on, which is being discussed in this thread:

https://forum.fiverr.com/t/trs-fiverr-pro-outsourcing-and-the-potential-for-buyer-backlash

this sounds like it’s potentially in response to the outsourcing of orders without letting the buyer know what’s going on,

Outsourcing wasn’t mentioned at all in the message. I’m not sure what will be evaluated. It mentions quality deliveries.

… provide the highest quality of work, service, and delivery.

…we will be conducting quality evaluations of your orders and deliveries.

I assumed they already did that but maybe not.

[cyaxrex]

this sounds like it’s potentially in response to the outsourcing of orders without letting the buyer know what’s going on,

Outsourcing wasn’t mentioned at all in the message. I’m not sure what will be evaluated. It mentions quality deliveries.

… provide the highest quality of work, service, and delivery.

…we will be conducting quality evaluations of your orders and deliveries.

I assumed they already did that but maybe not.

It is alluded to.

There are clearly cases where some sellers will need to outsource. Think video creator outsourcing a VO component of an order, etc.

the message clearly states "when you become a TRS, you join an exclusive club of A list sellers." - i.e. This means you become a TRS based on your performance and your work should reflect a TRS standard, not the standard of any underlings you outsource to.

I still read "we will be conducting quality evaluations on your orders and deliveries" as, we will be looking at what you order on Fiverr alongside what you deliver to your own clients. If Fiverr just meant they were checking the quality of deliveries, they would have just said deliveries or worded this differently.

"Favor quality over quantity," I read as: Don’t outsource / rush orders just so that you can complete more orders, as this can compromise the quality of your deliveries.

"Make sure you can deliver work within the timeframes and prices you set in your gigs description," I read as, if your buyer ordered a $100 logo, web copy, video, etc, from you, they don’t expect to receive work sourced from another seller who produces the material needed for considerably less.

IF Fiverr has had outsourcing put on its radar, I think this would be the best way to tackle the problem and add more trust to the platform. If I was a TRS and received this message, all I would now do is go to any video gigs I have which offer VOs, and make it clear that the VO component is outsourced to another seller. (I don’t currently offer VOs or outsource any component of my work.)

Alternatively, if I decided to offer a higher tier writing gig, I might add a disclaimer stating something like “to ensure the quality of my deliveries, some articles may be outsourced occasionally to an independent poof reader or copy editor of my choosing.”

Otherwise, it would just be business as usual.

[misscrystal]

It is alluded to.

There are clearly cases where some sellers will need to outsource. Think video creator outsourcing a VO component of an order, etc.

the message clearly states "when you become a TRS, you join an exclusive club of A list sellers." - i.e. This means you become a TRS based on your performance and your work should reflect a TRS standard, not the standard of any underlings you outsource to.

I still read "we will be conducting quality evaluations on your orders and deliveries" as, we will be looking at what you order on Fiverr alongside what you deliver to your own clients. If Fiverr just meant they were checking the quality of deliveries, they would have just said deliveries or worded this differently.

"Favor quality over quantity," I read as: Don’t outsource / rush orders just so that you can complete more orders, as this can compromise the quality of your deliveries.

"Make sure you can deliver work within the timeframes and prices you set in your gigs description," I read as, if your buyer ordered a $100 logo, web copy, video, etc, from you, they don’t expect to receive work sourced from another seller who produces the material needed for considerably less.

IF Fiverr has had outsourcing put on its radar, I think this would be the best way to tackle the problem and add more trust to the platform. If I was a TRS and received this message, all I would now do is go to any video gigs I have which offer VOs, and make it clear that the VO component is outsourced to another seller. (I don’t currently offer VOs or outsource any component of my work.)

Alternatively, if I decided to offer a higher tier writing gig, I might add a disclaimer stating something like “to ensure the quality of my deliveries, some articles may be outsourced occasionally to an independent poof reader or copy editor of my choosing.”

Otherwise, it would just be business as usual.

Why not just say outsourcing is not allowed for top rated sellers? Or why not send a message like that to those who are doing that?

[danno1950]

Why not just say outsourcing is not allowed for top rated sellers? Or why not send a message like that to those who are doing that?

I don’t think Fiverr has made any official statements acknowledging their awareness about the outsourcing issue, or if they have, I’ve missed it.

In the thread discussing outsourcing, I mentioned that I had passed along the thread to the person I interact with in the Pro program. He thanked me for alerting him to that thread, and said he would see what he could do about it.

The next day, we get the email about TRS performance. It’s not a conclusive connection, but the timing seems interesting.

[misscrystal]

I don’t think Fiverr has made any official statements acknowledging their awareness about the outsourcing issue, or if they have, I’ve missed it.

In the thread discussing outsourcing, I mentioned that I had passed along the thread to the person I interact with in the Pro program. He thanked me for alerting him to that thread, and said he would see what he could do about it.

The next day, we get the email about TRS performance. It’s not a conclusive connection, but the timing seems interesting.

What about Pro sellers? Also what about levels two and one sellers? It’s not a problem for them?

[cyaxrex]

Why not just say outsourcing is not allowed for top rated sellers? Or why not send a message like that to those who are doing that?

Because it may be genuinely necessary in some cases, as I pointed out with the VO example. Alternatively, sellers may need to order from sellers in their own categories occasionally for other reasons. Every year I order at least one article from a competitor. I do not do this to outsource. I do this to be nosy and see how their work compares to mine.

An outright ban would restrict people from buying on Fiverr who genuinely need to.