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TRS / Fiverr Pro Outsourcing and the Potential for Buyer Backlash


cyaxrex

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Thank you! It really should. What’s the point in vetting people for Fiverr Pro if they’re not even doing the work?! It’s so deceptive.

Buyers purchase from Fiverr Pro BECAUSE it is vetted. The whole reason it exists is to create accountability.

"Who are the Sellers labeled as Pro?

Freelancers that are eligible to open a Fiverr Pro Gig have gone through a vetting process conducted by our team of experts. We have verified that they are experienced professionals, with a great track record and high-level deliveries.

Fiverr Pro offers you access to hand-vetted, high-quality talent at a relatively affordable rate. You can now collaborate with verified professionals, that come with excellent credentials and extensive experience." https://buyers.fiverr.com/en/article/what-is-fiverr-pro

What this seller is offering doesn’t comply with this.

So how is this seller being vetted? Is she submitting others’ work for vetting? Hmm! In any case, it’s deceptive and misleading to sellers.

So how is this seller being vetted? Is she submitting others’ work for vetting? Hmm! In any case, it’s deceptive and misleading to sellers.

This is my point exactly.

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Guest humanissocial

These type of TRS sellers should be banned, this is bringing up a bad name for the community

Exactly! Fiverr sellers have a bad enough reputation as it is, I’ve found.

The internet is full of articles saying to not use Fiverr because of sketchy seller practices. We don’t need to add more fuel to the fire. Thanks, @danno1950, please do.

Glad you get it, @cyaxrex. It’s really unfortunate to have to explain basic business ethics, that some sellers are willing to deceive if they can get away with it…

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As @catwriter says, by giving the work to another person, you are breaching confidentiality, which breaks the ToS.

Also in the ToS, “Sellers warrant that any content included in their Gigs shall be original work conceived by the Sellers.” Note “conceived by the sellers.” You aren’t conceiving the work. You’re handing it off for someone else to do it. Fiverr also explicitly says being misleading is not allowed. What you’re doing is definitely misleading. “Your profile information, including your description, skills, location, etc., while may be kept anonymous, must be accurate and complete and may not be misleading, illegal, offensive or otherwise harmful.” Note “description, skills.” In your gig details, you have to say what skills you have. But really you’re sharing the skills of the person you’re outsourcing to, regardless if you yourself have these skills.

Also in the ToS, Fiverr requires a verification of the identity of the seller. It is YOU and YOU alone as the seller who are reviewed and approved. Another reason Fiverr requires this is to vet the seller in case of issues. They can’t vet a third-party, so this isn’t allowed and is really unethical. Verification is performed for the sake of buyers.

In any case, you shouldn’t need ToS to motivate you to operate ethically. Positioning yourself as being the one doing the work when you actually aren’t is morally wrong. You are positioning yourself as a freelancer but performing as an agency. And note that that there is no option to create a Team seller account on Fiverr. You’re just assuming that’s okay.

And note that that there is no option to create a Team seller account on Fiverr

Isn’t that sort of what Fiverr Studio(s) is (ability to work on a project as a team)?

from the TOS:

  • A Fiverr Studio allows certain Sellers to collaborate with each other and offer Buyers a multi-service Gig (a “Studio Gig”).
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And note that that there is no option to create a Team seller account on Fiverr

Isn’t that sort of what Fiverr Studio(s) is (ability to work on a project as a team)?

from the TOS:

  • A Fiverr Studio allows certain Sellers to collaborate with each other and offer Buyers a multi-service Gig (a “Studio Gig”).

Isn’t that sort of what Fiverr Studio(s) is (ability to work on a project as a team)?

While you are absolutely right (technically speaking), that is, however, not really the focus of this thread. 🙂 This thread talks about sellers offering the same services working on one project as opposed to sellers offering different services working together on one project (Fiverr Studio).

The Fiverr studio option (from what I understand) is only for sellers offering different services (in different categories/sub-categories) to come together. The Fiverr studio feature is not about getting 5 logo designers or 5 proofreaders to work on one project (which is kinda what this thread is talking about, i.e. sellers offering the same service coming together vetted sellers outsourcing their work to other non-vetted sellers who are offering the exact same service).

I agree… vetted sellers shouldn’t be allowed to outsource to non-vetted sellers. I don’t think they should even be allowed to outsource to other vetted sellers (which is probably never going to happen anyway) as there is a reason why your buyer chose you over them (probably because your style/approach is closer to the buyer’s needs/requirements).

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That is 100% untrue.

Ok

Yes Fiverr does favor “influencers” since it makes sense to have them broadcast how awesome Fiverr is, but that’s not part of the background check.

Ok

It is however, part of the application form, that is correct.

So that makes it kind of 33% factual… 🙂

I’m not arguing about this. Its a case of if walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, and flaps its wings like a duck, it’s probably not a combine harvester. You can say it is not true, But you can not stop people thinking that it is true, given how many ‘Pros’ and TRS sellers seem to slip through Fiverr’s rigorous vetting processes.

Anyway. my point with this thread was to make a case that TRS and Pro sellers should perhaps be barred from outsourcing. Apparently, that is being missed by everyone.

In either case, it cheapens the Fiverr brand and that is why I’m surprised it is allowed to go on.

Anyway. my point with this thread was to make a case that TRS and Pro sellers should perhaps be barred from outsourcing

I’ve never considered Pro Sellers anything more than a marketing tool for Fiverr. I’ve had multiple clients in the past few months that seemed underwhelmed by some Pro sellers (or the sellers they outsourced their work to) so I’m gonna chalk this up as a win for us lowly “regular” sellers.

For all I care, I hope they stick to whatever they’re doing because sooner or later the people they’re conning will catch on and I’ll be there to make the most of it.

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Guest humanissocial

And note that that there is no option to create a Team seller account on Fiverr

Isn’t that sort of what Fiverr Studio(s) is (ability to work on a project as a team)?

from the TOS:

  • A Fiverr Studio allows certain Sellers to collaborate with each other and offer Buyers a multi-service Gig (a “Studio Gig”).

You need permission for that and it isn’t what I am talking about. I am talking about Fiverr Pro Sellers selling the work as if they are doing it themselves, but really it is outsourced.

That’s deception and deception isn’t allowed (thank goodness).

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You need permission for that and it isn’t what I am talking about. I am talking about Fiverr Pro Sellers selling the work as if they are doing it themselves, but really it is outsourced.

That’s deception and deception isn’t allowed (thank goodness).

Outsourcing is allowed, although I wouldn’t like to purchase something that was outsourced. Sellers should mention they do that. And if someone hires a Pro seller in particular they are paying for that seller’s expertise.

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Exactly! Fiverr sellers have a bad enough reputation as it is, I’ve found.

The internet is full of articles saying to not use Fiverr because of sketchy seller practices. We don’t need to add more fuel to the fire. Thanks, @danno1950, please do.

Glad you get it, @cyaxrex. It’s really unfortunate to have to explain basic business ethics, that some sellers are willing to deceive if they can get away with it…

The internet is full of articles saying to not use Fiverr because of sketchy seller practices. We don’t need to add more fuel to the fire.

That is probably less than 10% of all sales on fiverr. You hear about the unhappy ones, not the happy ones.

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The internet is full of articles saying to not use Fiverr because of sketchy seller practices. We don’t need to add more fuel to the fire.

That is probably less than 10% of all sales on fiverr. You hear about the unhappy ones, not the happy ones.

That is probably less than 10% of all sales on fiverr.

Well, while that may be true, that doesn’t mean we can just ignore that 10%. It would be great if that 10% were further reduced (if possible), and anything more that can be done to reduce that % needs to be done. 🙂

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That is probably less than 10% of all sales on fiverr.

Well, while that may be true, that doesn’t mean we can just ignore that 10%. It would be great if that 10% were further reduced (if possible), and anything more that can be done to reduce that % needs to be done. 🙂

What do you suggest doing about the unhappy 10%? Probably half of those are the ones who tried to get something free and were thwarted.

The rest are probably people who tried to be sellers with more than one account and got caught.

Who else is going to be so angry and bitter they go around writing bad things about fiverr? I mean really, who would have time to do that unless they had a problem to begin with?

The bulk of complaints we see on the forum are from sellers who had to give a refund so it’s not like fiverr doesn’t help and accomodate people who complain.

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What do you suggest doing about the unhappy 10%? Probably half of those are the ones who tried to get something free and were thwarted.

The rest are probably people who tried to be sellers with more than one account and got caught.

Who else is going to be so angry and bitter they go around writing bad things about fiverr? I mean really, who would have time to do that unless they had a problem to begin with?

The bulk of complaints we see on the forum are from sellers who had to give a refund so it’s not like fiverr doesn’t help and accomodate people who complain.

What do you suggest doing about the unhappy 10%?

In this particular example that @humanissocial pointed out , this 10% is because of sketchy seller practices (as has already been pointed out by humanissocial).

The internet is full of articles saying to not use Fiverr because of sketchy seller practices.

So, preventing vetted sellers from outsourcing their work to non-vetted sellers (as has already been suggested and supported by several forum users in this thread) might be a good idea to reduce the number of people engaging in said sketchy practices.

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What do you suggest doing about the unhappy 10%?

In this particular example that @humanissocial pointed out , this 10% is because of sketchy seller practices (as has already been pointed out by humanissocial).

The internet is full of articles saying to not use Fiverr because of sketchy seller practices.

So, preventing vetted sellers from outsourcing their work to non-vetted sellers (as has already been suggested and supported by several forum users in this thread) might be a good idea to reduce the number of people engaging in said sketchy practices.

Fiverr doesn’t hesitate to give a refund when one is necessary.

I do notice Pro sellers with bad reviews but who knows what the story was behind them.

I don’t know how that can be policed unless fiverr checks every single thing any Pro seller does somehow. They won’t do that. How do you check every delivery and compare it to what they bought? And how do you even know a buyer objects? Do you tell him “Sorry to tell you this bad news but what you got and loved so much was outsourced.” Are you going to send letters like that to buyers?

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Fiverr doesn’t hesitate to give a refund when one is necessary.

I do notice Pro sellers with bad reviews but who knows what the story was behind them.

I don’t know how that can be policed unless fiverr checks every single thing any Pro seller does somehow. They won’t do that. How do you check every delivery and compare it to what they bought? And how do you even know a buyer objects? Do you tell him “Sorry to tell you this bad news but what you got and loved so much was outsourced.” Are you going to send letters like that to buyers?

I don’t know how that can be policed unless fiverr checks every single thing any Pro seller does somehow.

I would think the creativity that set up the Fiverr program could be employed to use AI or similar technology to put in some type of check and balances to alert for suspicious behavior - if avoiding diminishing credibility of the Fiverr Pro program is important enough to Fiverr. Do I have high expectations for that happening, @misscrystal? 🙂 No, not really! Which is unfortunate.

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Fiverr doesn’t hesitate to give a refund when one is necessary.

I do notice Pro sellers with bad reviews but who knows what the story was behind them.

I don’t know how that can be policed unless fiverr checks every single thing any Pro seller does somehow. They won’t do that. How do you check every delivery and compare it to what they bought? And how do you even know a buyer objects? Do you tell him “Sorry to tell you this bad news but what you got and loved so much was outsourced.” Are you going to send letters like that to buyers?

Fiverr doesn’t hesitate to give a refund when one is necessary.

Yes. However, as you can make out from the # of negative reviews some of these pro sellers have, it is evident that buyers would rather forgo the 100+ dollars they spent on the order (so that they can post a review) than get a refund, which you have already pointed out is very easy to obtain. This also highlights these buyers’ professionalism (as they believe it would be a disservice to the other buyers if they didn’t forewarn them).

Buyers who purchase from these vetted sellers EXPECT products/services that are of impeccable quality (and rightfully so). They do not deserve a product that was even partially designed/created with the help of some other non-vetted seller. If the buyer wanted something that was created (even partially) by a non-vetted seller, they wouldn’t have decided to purchase from a vetted seller.

Since all pro sellers were already “thoroughly vetted” in their areas of expertise, I think it is safe to say that they are capable of delivering products/services of impeccable quality (without needing any one else’s help). This is assuming pro-sellers do not agree to work on orders that are outside their comfort zone. So, the only way for them to receive an extremely critical or negative 1-star review would be if the product they delivered was not 100% designed/created by them. Therefore, it is safe to assume that the extremely critical and negative reviews (1-star reviews) are a result of outsourcing part/all of their work to other sellers.

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Fiverr doesn’t hesitate to give a refund when one is necessary.

I do notice Pro sellers with bad reviews but who knows what the story was behind them.

I don’t know how that can be policed unless fiverr checks every single thing any Pro seller does somehow. They won’t do that. How do you check every delivery and compare it to what they bought? And how do you even know a buyer objects? Do you tell him “Sorry to tell you this bad news but what you got and loved so much was outsourced.” Are you going to send letters like that to buyers?

I don’t know how that can be policed

It could be policed very easily. If you are a TRS or Pro seller, you would be only allowed a selling account. It would, therefore, be impossible to make purchases with your Fiverr credit like it is already impossible to use Fiverr credit / the normal Fiverr payment gateway to pay for Learn courses. The only way to get around this would be to open a 2nd account which is against TOS. This would hopefully make outsourcing too risky.

Of course, that can be seen as trying to kill a fly with a hand grenade. There are, after all, credible reasons to outsource certain parts of certain orders.

The thing is, there is a very big difference between a regular seller outsourcing something like the VO component of a video, and some sellers outsourcing complete projects on a daily basis as part of how they do business.

Usually when I come across a Pro or TRS seller outsourcing, they aren’t offering something like a video and outsourcing the VO component. They list something like a graphic design gig, then (as seems to be the case) outsource entire orders to other sellers. In most cases, they also seem to outsource to the lowest priced sellers possible.

Of course, even if you ban TRS and Pro sellers from buying on Fiverr, they could outsource to other sites. However, (for the most part) there isn’t another site like Fiverr where you can hope to buy anything credible for $5 - $10.

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First know that I am a newbie on Fiverr, but I have a lot of experience in the business world. I am not saying any of your concerns or comments are not valid or correct. My point is, outsourcing happens all over. And the customer never knows.

Promotional items. 90% plus are outsourced. Chances are the client will never know, UNLESS there is a problem. And that happens often.
Printing services from a local vendor. Often times a customers needs don’t fit perfectly with the vendor and they will outsource, sometimes well over state lines. Why is that important? They are not only relying on the outsourced vendor to do the job correctly, they also need to rely on timely shipping.
Advertising agencies. These folks are notorious for outsourcing problems, mainly hitting time frames and sticking to the agreed scope of the job.
Automotive mechanic. They can’t do everything a car needs and often will not let the client know that another shop did repair work on their vehicle. Kind of important to know if you have items in your vehicle you wouldn’t want a stranger to have access to.

You get the idea. I understand we are not talking apples to apples, but thought I would give you a different perspective.

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First know that I am a newbie on Fiverr, but I have a lot of experience in the business world. I am not saying any of your concerns or comments are not valid or correct. My point is, outsourcing happens all over. And the customer never knows.

Promotional items. 90% plus are outsourced. Chances are the client will never know, UNLESS there is a problem. And that happens often.

Printing services from a local vendor. Often times a customers needs don’t fit perfectly with the vendor and they will outsource, sometimes well over state lines. Why is that important? They are not only relying on the outsourced vendor to do the job correctly, they also need to rely on timely shipping.

Advertising agencies. These folks are notorious for outsourcing problems, mainly hitting time frames and sticking to the agreed scope of the job.

Automotive mechanic. They can’t do everything a car needs and often will not let the client know that another shop did repair work on their vehicle. Kind of important to know if you have items in your vehicle you wouldn’t want a stranger to have access to.

You get the idea. I understand we are not talking apples to apples, but thought I would give you a different perspective.

But in the situations you mentioned, it seems like the ethics of the outsourcing is questionable, and that seems like a similarity to the current discussion.

I’m not sure if “it happens a lot” is a very solid justification for the practice.

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But in the situations you mentioned, it seems like the ethics of the outsourcing is questionable, and that seems like a similarity to the current discussion.

I’m not sure if “it happens a lot” is a very solid justification for the practice.

No, I didn’t meant to give justification for the practice. Just stating that it is very common and will continue to be so with companies having to watch their overhead closer and closer.

That said when warranted, ask anytime you spend money with someone if they outsource.

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No, I didn’t meant to give justification for the practice. Just stating that it is very common and will continue to be so with companies having to watch their overhead closer and closer.

That said when warranted, ask anytime you spend money with someone if they outsource.

Sorry, I didn’t intend to imply you justified the practice. 😀 You were just pointing out how widespread it is. Yes, unfortunately, it is all too common. It’s just that Fiverr has invested a lot in upgrading their service, and now it is being undermined.

When a company started with gigs like “I’ll wear a silly costume and hold up a banner showing your company name for $5,” I would think maintaining the credibility of their upgraded service would be very important.

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First know that I am a newbie on Fiverr, but I have a lot of experience in the business world. I am not saying any of your concerns or comments are not valid or correct. My point is, outsourcing happens all over. And the customer never knows.

Promotional items. 90% plus are outsourced. Chances are the client will never know, UNLESS there is a problem. And that happens often.

Printing services from a local vendor. Often times a customers needs don’t fit perfectly with the vendor and they will outsource, sometimes well over state lines. Why is that important? They are not only relying on the outsourced vendor to do the job correctly, they also need to rely on timely shipping.

Advertising agencies. These folks are notorious for outsourcing problems, mainly hitting time frames and sticking to the agreed scope of the job.

Automotive mechanic. They can’t do everything a car needs and often will not let the client know that another shop did repair work on their vehicle. Kind of important to know if you have items in your vehicle you wouldn’t want a stranger to have access to.

You get the idea. I understand we are not talking apples to apples, but thought I would give you a different perspective.

My point is, outsourcing happens all over. And the customer never knows.

Outsourcing does happen all over. However, not in the way being discussed here. If you are a print shop, you do not outsource design to a random person online for the cheapest price possible. Neither does an advertiser outsource some or all of an ad campaign to an unverifiable third party company or individual.

They know, that things like a plagiarized copy or use of copyright infringing designs could sink their business. This is why the vast majority of reputable brands avoid Fiverr and similar freelance jobs portals.

To make Fiverr more appealing and leverage trust among bigger, more reputable brands, Fiverr created Fiverr Pro. Pro sellers are vetted. They charge industry going rates (and sometimes a lot more) for services real ad companies, printers, businesses, etc, can be ensured are 100% free from copyright infringement and similar problems.

When a Pro seller outsources, they undermine the very concept of Pro. This is especially true when Pro sellers charge $100+ for services which they outsource to the very $5 - $10 budget sellers, whom are traditionally the highest risk to work with on Fiverr when it comes to things like copyright infringing media.

It is basically a trust time bomb.

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My point is, outsourcing happens all over. And the customer never knows.

Outsourcing does happen all over. However, not in the way being discussed here. If you are a print shop, you do not outsource design to a random person online for the cheapest price possible. Neither does an advertiser outsource some or all of an ad campaign to an unverifiable third party company or individual.

They know, that things like a plagiarized copy or use of copyright infringing designs could sink their business. This is why the vast majority of reputable brands avoid Fiverr and similar freelance jobs portals.

To make Fiverr more appealing and leverage trust among bigger, more reputable brands, Fiverr created Fiverr Pro. Pro sellers are vetted. They charge industry going rates (and sometimes a lot more) for services real ad companies, printers, businesses, etc, can be ensured are 100% free from copyright infringement and similar problems.

When a Pro seller outsources, they undermine the very concept of Pro. This is especially true when Pro sellers charge $100+ for services which they outsource to the very $5 - $10 budget sellers, whom are traditionally the highest risk to work with on Fiverr when it comes to things like copyright infringing media.

It is basically a trust time bomb.

It is basically a trust time bomb.

That is the essence of the whole issue, very elegantly stated!

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My point is, outsourcing happens all over. And the customer never knows.

Outsourcing does happen all over. However, not in the way being discussed here. If you are a print shop, you do not outsource design to a random person online for the cheapest price possible. Neither does an advertiser outsource some or all of an ad campaign to an unverifiable third party company or individual.

They know, that things like a plagiarized copy or use of copyright infringing designs could sink their business. This is why the vast majority of reputable brands avoid Fiverr and similar freelance jobs portals.

To make Fiverr more appealing and leverage trust among bigger, more reputable brands, Fiverr created Fiverr Pro. Pro sellers are vetted. They charge industry going rates (and sometimes a lot more) for services real ad companies, printers, businesses, etc, can be ensured are 100% free from copyright infringement and similar problems.

When a Pro seller outsources, they undermine the very concept of Pro. This is especially true when Pro sellers charge $100+ for services which they outsource to the very $5 - $10 budget sellers, whom are traditionally the highest risk to work with on Fiverr when it comes to things like copyright infringing media.

It is basically a trust time bomb.

It is basically a trust time bomb.

Pretty much but that only means Fiverr doesn’t have to and probably won’t do anything about it till the very end. Unless there’s some sort of big incident it’s certainly not being changed especially after the IPO since it’s even more important for Fiverr to maintain a better public image.

That’s just how things are when it comes to giant corporations.

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Believe it or not, yes the print company does outsource design if the in house staff is unable to accomplish the required design. The print company will own the rights to the design in perpetuity so there is no issue there. I used to work for one.

I agree that Fiverr is a different animal and because of this, it could really water down the idea of dealing with a Pro.

Again, I was just trying to share a broader picture than just inside Fiverr. I agree with your concerns as I am a new seller.

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