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Seller was able to cancel 3 BIG orders after we fully delivered and they confirmed the work and reviewed us kindly


emmasdad
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So in the case of B, those buyers just need to start off buying smaller value orders with Fiverr incrementing the allowed value over time. I think that should reduce the risk. The more time and the more orders may make it less likely the card company would allow a chargeback. So either verify ID sufficiently or limit order value for a time (maybe the buyer could decide which they wanted to do of these if they wanted to pay through PayPal), that way they can still order.

If you were wanting to buy something online, would you not find this just a teensy bit insulting and go elsewhere? I know I would.

Fiverr, like any other business, wants buyers to spend money easily, not put them off.

I also said Fiverr could add a credit/debit card option they could use.

For the PayPal option I’d recognise that it was probably a necessary step to help prevent fraud. Starting with a $50 order value limit (maybe increasing to $70 within around a week - if they had made an order, then again later) would be an easy way to help ensure minimal losses if they didn’t want further ID verification.

edit: If the $50 initial limit is too low, Fiverr can pick a higher limit. But they could still, if paying with PayPal (and where Fiverr aren’t fully sure of the ID) have an initial limit (maybe it could be higher like $100 or $300) that still puts some limit on order value to start off with so that you don’t have sellers losing out on >=$1000 from chargebacks and you are less likely to have sellers losing out on around 30 days of work.

If someone wanted to order something high value for the first order maybe they’d use a debit/credit card if Fiverr creates that option, as they’d know there are issues with PayPal.

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I highly doubt that this is any sort of bug. Instead, this sounds like a Paypal chargeback – which has nothing to do with Fiverr. Your buyer likely purchased large ticket services, accepted delivery, left reviews, and then forced PayPal to cancel his payments, refund his purchases, thereby cancelling his completed orders on Fiverr. Without any valid funding, orders are cancelled.

Please do not blame Fiverr for things that are not Fiverr’s fault.

It sounds a bit like your buyer scammed you for free services. Contact Fiverr directly, and they might be able to shed more light on what actually happened.

Please do not blame Fiverr for things that are not Fiverr’s fault

Fiverr should remove payment method of PayPal to avoid this kind of scams?

The same thing is happening with many sellers and affecting there completion rate.

It happend with me.

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I also said Fiverr could add a credit/debit card option they could use.

For the PayPal option I’d recognise that it was probably a necessary step to help prevent fraud. Starting with a $50 order value limit (maybe increasing to $70 within around a week - if they had made an order, then again later) would be an easy way to help ensure minimal losses if they didn’t want further ID verification.

edit: If the $50 initial limit is too low, Fiverr can pick a higher limit. But they could still, if paying with PayPal (and where Fiverr aren’t fully sure of the ID) have an initial limit (maybe it could be higher like $100 or $300) that still puts some limit on order value to start off with so that you don’t have sellers losing out on >=$1000 from chargebacks and you are less likely to have sellers losing out on around 30 days of work.

If someone wanted to order something high value for the first order maybe they’d use a debit/credit card if Fiverr creates that option, as they’d know there are issues with PayPal.

For the PayPal option I’d recognise that it was probably a necessary step to help prevent fraud. Starting with a $50 order value limit (maybe increasing to $70 within around a week - if they had made an order, then again later) would be an easy way to help ensure minimal losses if they didn’t want further ID verification.

All of this assumes that all buyers are going to be naughty people and are only signing up to defraud sellers.

Thankfully, although some buyers do this, as indicated by the OP, I’m sure they are in the minority.

When I was a child, the local sweet shop had a sign that said that only 2 school children were allowed in the shop at a time to avoid theft - they were presuming guilt before anybody had even gone in the shop. I felt insulted by that as a child as I would never have dreamt of stealing anything.

As an adult, I’d feel equally insulted that limits were put on my spending ability before I’d even had the chance to buy anything.

If Fiverr and PayPal together are a dangerous combination, perhaps individual sellers should think of ways to stay within Fiverr’s ToS and those of PayPal’s, but keep themselves safe at the same time. If that includes having a sum of money in their head they’re prepared to lose, and not selling gigs for more than that value, then perhaps it would be one solution?

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For the PayPal option I’d recognise that it was probably a necessary step to help prevent fraud. Starting with a $50 order value limit (maybe increasing to $70 within around a week - if they had made an order, then again later) would be an easy way to help ensure minimal losses if they didn’t want further ID verification.

All of this assumes that all buyers are going to be naughty people and are only signing up to defraud sellers.

Thankfully, although some buyers do this, as indicated by the OP, I’m sure they are in the minority.

When I was a child, the local sweet shop had a sign that said that only 2 school children were allowed in the shop at a time to avoid theft - they were presuming guilt before anybody had even gone in the shop. I felt insulted by that as a child as I would never have dreamt of stealing anything.

As an adult, I’d feel equally insulted that limits were put on my spending ability before I’d even had the chance to buy anything.

If Fiverr and PayPal together are a dangerous combination, perhaps individual sellers should think of ways to stay within Fiverr’s ToS and those of PayPal’s, but keep themselves safe at the same time. If that includes having a sum of money in their head they’re prepared to lose, and not selling gigs for more than that value, then perhaps it would be one solution?

Cards already have limits where you can’t take >X amount out of a cash machine (and if you want to take more you need to go in the bank and have them check your identity, and they might increase the limit on the card). It’s not an insult, it’s to protect against fraud. PayPal has a limit where they do a bit more verification after X amount has been spent, to protect fraud. I don’t see it as an insult to have some limit in place if paying by PayPal through Fiverr, if the initial limit is a reasonable figure, and if it increases in a reasonable way over time. And they could also add credit/debit card options like I said.

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Please do not blame Fiverr for things that are not Fiverr’s fault

Fiverr should remove payment method of PayPal to avoid this kind of scams?

The same thing is happening with many sellers and affecting there completion rate.

It happend with me.

Fiverr should remove payment method of PayPal to avoid this kind of scams?

I sincerely hope not. Thousands of buyers and sellers use PayPal to fund their purchases and obtain their revenues. It would hurt Fiverr’s bottom line, and alienate sellers if PayPal were removed as funding/revenue option on this site.

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Why won’t you help me get my money!

Because everyone here is a buyer or a seller and we do not have the power to help you. 😧

I spoke to PayPal about this issue and they blamed it on the credit card companies saying that if a buyer does a credit card chargeback PayPal has no power to do anything about the chargeback. 😒

The Forum is listed as support on the phone app, however, the only support we can give is advice we have learned through our experiences on Fiverr. :roll_eyes:

I am still wondering how this explanation from PayPal is plausible.

I have had a situation where an item a friend paid for with PayPal was not supplied.

The friend contacted PayPal , PayPal contacted the supplier and asked the supplier to confirm if that complaint from my friend was true.

Now the supplier was given an option to prove their case, else there would be a charge back.

So why is it in Fiverr case that, PayPal does not give Fiverr the chance to prove that the goods paid for was delivered?

Why is charge back immediate?

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We don’t know what you wrote to CS but you might ask them to escalate the matter and ask them if that was a chargeback from a buyer (which seems so). And if so ask them to review your delivery and try to return your money as you delivered everything as promised in your gig and according to gig requirements. It might take time but if the do escalate it and send it to relevant department they might be able to get back your money.

Does this work?

Fiverr should let sellers know

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I am still wondering how this explanation from PayPal is plausible.

I have had a situation where an item a friend paid for with PayPal was not supplied.

The friend contacted PayPal , PayPal contacted the supplier and asked the supplier to confirm if that complaint from my friend was true.

Now the supplier was given an option to prove their case, else there would be a charge back.

So why is it in Fiverr case that, PayPal does not give Fiverr the chance to prove that the goods paid for was delivered?

Why is charge back immediate?

So why is it in Fiverr case that, PayPal does not give Fiverr the chance to prove that the goods paid for was delivered?

All I know is that in some cases sellers have received all or some of their money back. But those cases do not happen often. Maybe it is because what many sellers do on Fiverr is subjective and not objective. So if the buyer says he does not like the product and it is not what he expected, the buyer then can get a pay back.

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  • 2 weeks later...

I spoke to PayPal about this issue and they blamed it on the credit card companies saying that if a buyer does a credit card chargeback PayPal has no power to do anything about the chargeback.

⬆️ This. Paypal describes a chargeback as follows:

https://www.paypal.com/us/smarthelp/article/what-is-a-chargeback,-and-why-did-i-get-one-faq2036

“A chargeback isn’t the same as a PayPal claim. The chargeback process is initiated outside of PayPal, between the card issuer and their cardholder. In a dispute over a chargeback, the decision is ultimately made by the card issuer and we don’t decide the outcome.”

About the seller protection:

88c5c57e509712ffa72911e66b6d5238afd656e5.pngpaypal.com 6bac98f15adfab6401322b17b026d3371e5a77a5.png

PayPal Purchase Protection for Buyers – PayPal US

Learn which purchases through PayPal’s online Purchase Protection program are covered, giving buyers peace of mind.

“If you received an unauthorized payment or a buyer claims he never received his item, our Seller Protection can help you get the full amount of an eligible payment, subject of the Claim, Chargeback, or Reversal and waive the Chargeback Fee, if applicable. As long as you meet the eligibility requirements, you may be protected.”

Our Seller Protection program does not cover:

(…)

  • Digital goods and licences for digital content.
  • Donations.

Where “Donations”, in Fiverr terms, corresponds to “tips”.

Now a question:

  • Fiverr is a platform meant for selling digital goods.
  • Paypal does not protect digital goods from a chargeback.
  • Fiverr provides Paypal as a payment method. Why?

Now a question:

  • Fiverr is a platform meant for selling digital goods.
  • Paypal does not protect digital goods from a chargeback.
  • Fiverr provides Paypal as a payment method. Why ?

Because Paypal has always had that policy concerning digital goods, which would include websites or things related to websites probably. You would have to ask Paypal why. But I still notice on the forum that buyers do get refunded sometimes for websites, presumably because they do not meet the descriptions in the gigs. The refunds must come directly from fiverr rather than Paypal.

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