Contd Discussions About Level Updates - St. Levels Day - Pt 2

[sisarasanal]

The real problem are also the cancelled orders for which the buyers are at fault, but Fiverr still only looks at them as a statistic and punishes sellers who did nothing wrong.

The same sellers who make this website breathe.

Yes this is such a bad rule if fiverr need to increase more sales fiverr must save and protect good sellers we don’t ask any special opportunities we need just equal rules

[uk1000]

The level demotion sounds to me like a way for Fiverr to bust down “certain” accounts for whatever reason.

Seller level does not limit sales potential in any way.

Do a search for any keyword. You’ll see TRS, Level 2, Level 1 and New Sellers mixed into the results, from the top row all the way down to the bottom of the page. Seller levels are nothing more than achievable levels (with a few perks as you gain a higher level). They merely rank the on-site success of every seller. You can still make just as much income as a Level 1 seller as you can a TRS.

Fiverr isn’t limiting sales success – that would be INCREDIBLY foolish of them. Fiverr WANTS sellers to make money, they just want buyers to have a better understanding of who has the best reputation on Fiverr.

Seller levels have nothing to do with sales success. I am baffled as to why so many sellers are sobbing uncontrollably over a reputational level loss. You can still make the same amount of income no matter what level you are at – it just depends upon how hard you want to work at EARNING those sales.

Seller level does not limit sales potential in any way.

It does since you can have less gigs (normally) with lower levels. eg. the vast majority of Level 1 sellers are limited to 10 active gigs, whereas those with Level 2 can have 20 active gigs. 20 active gigs (assuming they are all good gigs) will give a lot more chance of orders than 10 active gigs (of the same quality).

[jonbaas]

Seller level does not limit sales potential in any way.

It does since you can have less gigs (normally) with lower levels. eg. the vast majority of Level 1 sellers are limited to 10 active gigs, whereas those with Level 2 can have 20 active gigs. 20 active gigs (assuming they are all good gigs) will give a lot more chance of orders than 10 active gigs (of the same quality).

Multiple gigs does not guarantee that you will sell more, QUALITY gigs sell. You can have quality gigs at any seller level. I’ve had 2-3 active gigs for nearly four years now (at Level 1 and Level 2), and I do just fine on the sales end of things.

It’s never a good idea to create the maximum amount of allowed gigs, just for the sake of having the maximum amount of gigs. Instead, do your research, and develop a few gigs that sell well. Focus your attention on quality, not quantity. Then, if you do lose a seller level, you don’t lose any gigs as well. 😉

[fastcopywriter]

Multiple gigs does not guarantee that you will sell more, QUALITY gigs sell. You can have quality gigs at any seller level. I’ve had 2-3 active gigs for nearly four years now (at Level 1 and Level 2), and I do just fine on the sales end of things.

It’s never a good idea to create the maximum amount of allowed gigs, just for the sake of having the maximum amount of gigs. Instead, do your research, and develop a few gigs that sell well. Focus your attention on quality, not quantity. Then, if you do lose a seller level, you don’t lose any gigs as well. 😉

What are your thoughts on displaying star ratings in the search results instead of 90%-100%? I think I was getting more orders when buyers saw 96% instead of 4.6.

[jonbaas]

What are your thoughts on displaying star ratings in the search results instead of 90%-100%? I think I was getting more orders when buyers saw 96% instead of 4.6.

Screen Shot 2018-01-24 at 2.56.30 PM.png910×87 8.35 KB

What are your thoughts on displaying star ratings in the search results instead of 90%-100%? I think I was getting more orders when buyers saw 96% instead of 4.6.

The stars seem fine to me. It levels the field, which seems to be great for most sellers. That, and buyers are likely to be confused at what the percentages mean. The current stars displayed seems to be universally understood as a rating system.

[uk1000]

Multiple gigs does not guarantee that you will sell more, QUALITY gigs sell. You can have quality gigs at any seller level. I’ve had 2-3 active gigs for nearly four years now (at Level 1 and Level 2), and I do just fine on the sales end of things.

It’s never a good idea to create the maximum amount of allowed gigs, just for the sake of having the maximum amount of gigs. Instead, do your research, and develop a few gigs that sell well. Focus your attention on quality, not quantity. Then, if you do lose a seller level, you don’t lose any gigs as well. 😉

I never said increasing gigs guaranteed more sales. Though it will very likely limit them if you are on Level 1 (and aren’t one of the few who are allowed >10 gigs at level 1) vs being on Level 2. It’s like a site only allowed to sell 10 products - if they can sell 20 they are much more likely to be able to make a lot more money (possibly twice as much). Or it’s like if each gig can give you a chance of an order, twice as many gigs (eg. 20 instead of 10) may give you twice as much chance (a bit like twice as many lottery tickets). It also limits you because you can’t send offers for buyer requests that you could so if you don’t have a relavent enough gig, but the level can limit the amount of active gigs you can have, so preventing you from even sending the offer (unless you paused another gig), and also preventing you getting the order that you could have done.

So yes, the levels do (or are very likely to) limit sales just because the vast majority of those on a lower level (eg. Level 1, who can normally only have 10 active gigs) are only allowed to have less active gigs than a seller on Level 2 (who can have 20).

On average, more active gigs a user has will normally mean more orders=more income.

[fastcopywriter]

What are your thoughts on displaying star ratings in the search results instead of 90%-100%? I think I was getting more orders when buyers saw 96% instead of 4.6.

The stars seem fine to me. It levels the field, which seems to be great for most sellers. That, and buyers are likely to be confused at what the percentages mean. The current stars displayed seems to be universally understood as a rating system.

The stars seem fine to me. It levels the field

Levels the field? Right now only my 4.8 to 5.0 gigs are getting orders. My 4.6 gig only gets orders from repeat customers, and that’s not enough. I say the demotion plus the stars has destroyed my #1 gig.

What’s hard to understand about 96%? It’s basic math. 100% is perfection, 96% means 4% of buyers didn’t like your work.

The new system means a guy with 4 reviews and 5.0 is stronger than one with 1,400 reviews and 4.6.

[jonbaas]

I never said increasing gigs guaranteed more sales. Though it will very likely limit them if you are on Level 1 (and aren’t one of the few who are allowed >10 gigs at level 1) vs being on Level 2. It’s like a site only allowed to sell 10 products - if they can sell 20 they are much more likely to be able to make a lot more money (possibly twice as much). Or it’s like if each gig can give you a chance of an order, twice as many gigs (eg. 20 instead of 10) may give you twice as much chance (a bit like twice as many lottery tickets). It also limits you because you can’t send offers for buyer requests that you could so if you don’t have a relavent enough gig, but the level can limit the amount of active gigs you can have, so preventing you from even sending the offer (unless you paused another gig), and also preventing you getting the order that you could have done.

So yes, the levels do (or are very likely to) limit sales just because the vast majority of those on a lower level (eg. Level 1, who can normally only have 10 active gigs) are only allowed to have less active gigs than a seller on Level 2 (who can have 20).

On average, more active gigs a user has will normally mean more orders=more income.

So yes, the levels do (or are very likely to) limit sales just because the vast majority of those on a lower level (eg. Level 1, who can normally only have 10 active gigs) are only allowed to have less active gigs than a seller on Level 2 (who can have 20).

Perhaps Fiverr is trying to lower the number of gigs in their directory. When most sellers get demoted, those sellers need to choose fewer active gigs to display. Perhaps this is Fiverr’s way of removing gigs from not-so-great sellers, and encouraging sellers to focus on a few quality gigs, instead of continuing the prevalent (but generally spammy) “more gigs means more sales” mentality that has been running amok on Fiverr. 😉

[jonbaas]

The stars seem fine to me. It levels the field

Levels the field? Right now only my 4.8 to 5.0 gigs are getting orders. My 4.6 gig only gets orders from repeat customers, and that’s not enough. I say the demotion plus the stars has destroyed my #1 gig.

What’s hard to understand about 96%? It’s basic math. 100% is perfection, 96% means 4% of buyers didn’t like your work.

The new system means a guy with 4 reviews and 5.0 is stronger than one with 1,400 reviews and 4.6.

Levels the field? Right now only my 4.8 to 5.0 gigs are getting orders. My 4.6 gig only gets orders from repeat customers, and that’s not enough. I say the demotion plus the stars has destroyed my #1 gig.

What’s hard to understand about 96%? It’s basic math. 100% is perfection, 96% means 4% of buyers didn’t like your work.

The new system means a guy with 4 reviews and 5.0 is stronger than one with 1,400 reviews and 4.6.

I’m not going to argue with you about the consequences of Fiverr’s new level’s system, and how that might affect your gig rankings. This conversation/debate/argument has already run its course in other forum threads.

[fastcopywriter]

I never said increasing gigs guaranteed more sales. Though it will very likely limit them if you are on Level 1 (and aren’t one of the few who are allowed >10 gigs at level 1) vs being on Level 2. It’s like a site only allowed to sell 10 products - if they can sell 20 they are much more likely to be able to make a lot more money (possibly twice as much). Or it’s like if each gig can give you a chance of an order, twice as many gigs (eg. 20 instead of 10) may give you twice as much chance (a bit like twice as many lottery tickets). It also limits you because you can’t send offers for buyer requests that you could so if you don’t have a relavent enough gig, but the level can limit the amount of active gigs you can have, so preventing you from even sending the offer (unless you paused another gig), and also preventing you getting the order that you could have done.

So yes, the levels do (or are very likely to) limit sales just because the vast majority of those on a lower level (eg. Level 1, who can normally only have 10 active gigs) are only allowed to have less active gigs than a seller on Level 2 (who can have 20).

On average, more active gigs a user has will normally mean more orders=more income.

On average, more active gigs a user has will normally mean more orders=more income.

Not necessarily. Jonbaas has 3 gigs, yet one of them has 11 Orders in Queue. I have 14 gigs, and today I only got one order.

Of course, if the new system is so great, if it levels the playing field, how come so many proven sellers not only got demoted, but aren’t making much less money than they used to?

The new system is crap, Fiverr doesn’t care. They brag about introducing AND CO.

https://blog.fiverr.com/andcofromfiverr/

What the heck am I gonna do with that? I already have an accountant, an excel sheet, why do I need some fancy SaaS platform that “manages tasks, tracks time, sends out invoices, and accepts payments, all on one platform.”

I don’t need it! Here on Fiverr we don’t even get paid by the hour, so why should we care about tracking time?

[uk1000]

On average, more active gigs a user has will normally mean more orders=more income.

Not necessarily. Jonbaas has 3 gigs, yet one of them has 11 Orders in Queue. I have 14 gigs, and today I only got one order.

Of course, if the new system is so great, if it levels the playing field, how come so many proven sellers not only got demoted, but aren’t making much less money than they used to?

The new system is crap, Fiverr doesn’t care. They brag about introducing AND CO.

https://blog.fiverr.com/andcofromfiverr/

What the heck am I gonna do with that? I already have an accountant, an excel sheet, why do I need some fancy SaaS platform that “manages tasks, tracks time, sends out invoices, and accepts payments, all on one platform.”

I don’t need it! Here on Fiverr we don’t even get paid by the hour, so why should we care about tracking time?

Not necessarily. Jonbaas has 3 gigs, yet one of them has 11 Orders in Queue. I have 14 gigs, and today I only got one order.

I said “on average”, ie. the average over many/all users, which I think should probably be correct (as more active gigs should (all other things being equal) mean more chance of orders). That doesn’t mean that those with the most orders will necessarily earn the most as the value of some orders will be higher than others, especially for those with “Pro” gigs. Also the total number of orders in the queue isn’t totally equivalent when one person’s gig(s) have a shorter delivery time than another person’s.

You could use this poll to get a better idea (once it has a high enough number of voters):

Fiverr Forum

Number of Active Gigs vs Completed Orders poll

The number of active gigs vs number of Completed Orders poll Please select the option which shows the number of active gigs you currently have and the number of completed orders you have made. No active gigs 1-5 active gigs, 0-49 completed...

Though that doesn’t take into account various things, including the length of time someone has been on Fiverr.

[eclectictllc]

I have three hundred and three 5 star ratings, ten 4 star ratings, three 3 star ratings, and two 2 star ratings.

When it comes to promotion/demotion, it doesn’t matter how many total reviews you’ve received as a seller. The only reviews that count (in regards to seller levels) are the reviews you have received within the last 60 days. This is a reasonable assessment of recent seller history, and it is the method Fiverr has chosen.

Except it penalizes sellers who have less orders. Not everyone wants a cookbook edited &/or formatted every day. Or the other person I bumped into is writing full novels of 50K words. How many of those do you do a month?

So one lower rating or one cancellation can really throw your levels off.

This system works better for the higher-volume sellers. If you’re selling 200 $5-$50 gigs a month, great. But if you’re selling 2 $700 gigs a month…

[eclectictllc]

I lost my level Rank without my fault I was 4 years old level 2 seller and i always doing huge jobs $200-$5000 Fiverr has earned more than $10 000 commission only from me, just commission…!!! but after this update i lost my level without any fault some bad people ordered and canceled order i think these all done by same person just order and even don’t wast 2Scnd to send cancellation request we can understand he want to put me dawn and there is no any deal he did same thing more than 5 time if fiverr add bad rules like this i suggest to replace Only contact button instead order button we will send custom offers and some other way to lock order button otherwise fiverr will loss good sellers & for now my 100% Negative review for new level system 👎

[eclectictllc]

Multiple gigs does not guarantee that you will sell more, QUALITY gigs sell. You can have quality gigs at any seller level. I’ve had 2-3 active gigs for nearly four years now (at Level 1 and Level 2), and I do just fine on the sales end of things.

It’s never a good idea to create the maximum amount of allowed gigs, just for the sake of having the maximum amount of gigs. Instead, do your research, and develop a few gigs that sell well. Focus your attention on quality, not quantity. Then, if you do lose a seller level, you don’t lose any gigs as well. 😉

While I agree with this in theory, there’s a few reasons for several gigs:

Not all categories are clear. Is formatting a book an “editing” job? Where would someone go to find it? There’s no interior book formatting category. So I’m stuck having to think like customers. They might go into Cover Design, or into Editing… hrm.

Same thing on Buyer Requests. If I have 1 gig in Editing, I only see the Editing buyer requests. But I’m looking for formatting gigs. Where would people make that request?

Another issue: Some of my gigs are pretty big-ticket items that are very labor intensive. I can spend around 10-30 days on each job. And then I’m twiddling my thumbs for days while the customer is checking my work, marking up a whole book with changes, etc.

So I have a few gigs for smaller work with 2-5 day delivery times (format a document instead of a whole book, etc.). And a couple delivery-only gigs that are basically “passive income” in that I already did the work and just deliver files that are already finished that I have a 2-day turnaround and usually deliver within 24 hrs.

They’re ALL quality gigs and deliver VALUE. Just different levels of labor and different cash value per gig.

[eclectictllc]

On average, more active gigs a user has will normally mean more orders=more income.

Not necessarily. Jonbaas has 3 gigs, yet one of them has 11 Orders in Queue. I have 14 gigs, and today I only got one order.

Of course, if the new system is so great, if it levels the playing field, how come so many proven sellers not only got demoted, but aren’t making much less money than they used to?

The new system is crap, Fiverr doesn’t care. They brag about introducing AND CO.

https://blog.fiverr.com/andcofromfiverr/

What the heck am I gonna do with that? I already have an accountant, an excel sheet, why do I need some fancy SaaS platform that “manages tasks, tracks time, sends out invoices, and accepts payments, all on one platform.”

I don’t need it! Here on Fiverr we don’t even get paid by the hour, so why should we care about tracking time?

Ah – I was thinking about this one, and remember that the world is all about data right now.

The data collection is why.

The more freelancers that use the platform, the more back-end data Fiverr gets on what consultants and freelancers are billing for and how much money they’re charging OFF of Fiverr. I don’t think that necessarily helps us as Fiverr sellers (though it might once they realize that they’ve set us all up to be about 1/5 the price of the same work OFF of Fiverr…if they can figure out how to make a pricing correction) — but that’s amazingly important data for Fiverr who is trying to raise the bar on services (introducing Fiverr Pros… cough) and pricing of gigs.

[sisarasanal]

If the same person did this several times, I would report it to Fiverr CS. That sounds like abuse of the system. 😦

Hello eclectictllc, you think i didn’t do that ? I made more than 10 tickets to same problem. they marked them as solved without solve, and yes these rules are really BAD…!!! My very Native Feedback to this update its not fair…!!! 😡

[fastcopywriter]

Ah – I was thinking about this one, and remember that the world is all about data right now.

The data collection is why.

The more freelancers that use the platform, the more back-end data Fiverr gets on what consultants and freelancers are billing for and how much money they’re charging OFF of Fiverr. I don’t think that necessarily helps us as Fiverr sellers (though it might once they realize that they’ve set us all up to be about 1/5 the price of the same work OFF of Fiverr…if they can figure out how to make a pricing correction) — but that’s amazingly important data for Fiverr who is trying to raise the bar on services (introducing Fiverr Pros… cough) and pricing of gigs.

but that’s amazingly important data for Fiverr who is trying to raise the bar on service

Which is the wrong approach. People come to Fiverr because it’s easy and flexible whether you’re order a $600 romance novel or a $5 logo.

Fiverr strength comes from her users. Fiverr never imagined someone would pay $600 for a romance logo, $5 for a t-shirt headline, $5 for a blond to sing happy birthday, $20 for a language lesson on s***e, $10 for dancing women, $5 for bass drops, etc. That’s why Fiverr had to create new categories while keeping broad categories like “other” for those gigs that don’t fit in so easily.

Fiverr is destroying itself by trying to be like others. I got talented sellers complaining that they’ve been demoted, I heard horror stories, including one from a woman who makes $400,000 a year who got demoted. I’m advertising one of my gigs on Facebook, an expense I never needed to have before St. Levels, an expense that isn’t getting me any sales but is costing me $5 a day.

Instead of data collections, they should focus on surveying sellers and finding buyers. That’s what Uber/Lyft, and other gig economy winners do.

[jonbaas]

Except it penalizes sellers who have less orders. Not everyone wants a cookbook edited &/or formatted every day. Or the other person I bumped into is writing full novels of 50K words. How many of those do you do a month?

So one lower rating or one cancellation can really throw your levels off.

This system works better for the higher-volume sellers. If you’re selling 200 $5-$50 gigs a month, great. But if you’re selling 2 $700 gigs a month…

This system works better for the higher-volume sellers.

I believe that’s the point, though. Fiverr seeks to reward sellers who sell frequently, and sell consistently. Fiverr wants to promote those sellers to buyers, because those sellers are more trustworthy, they understand and and respect how Fiverr works, and, most of all, they make Fiverr more money. Fiverr exists, first and foremost, to make money; why shouldn’t they promote the proven sellers that do that for them?

[eclectictllc]

This system works better for the higher-volume sellers.

I believe that’s the point, though. Fiverr seeks to reward sellers who sell frequently, and sell consistently. Fiverr wants to promote those sellers to buyers, because those sellers are more trustworthy, they understand and and respect how Fiverr works, and, most of all, they make Fiverr more money. Fiverr exists, first and foremost, to make money; why shouldn’t they promote the proven sellers that do that for them?

I believe that’s the point, though. Fiverr seeks to reward sellers who sell frequently, and sell consistently. Fiverr wants to promote those sellers to buyers, because those sellers are more trustworthy, they understand and and respect how Fiverr works, and, most of all, they make Fiverr more money. Fiverr exists, first and foremost, to make money; why shouldn’t they promote the proven sellers that do that for them?

You’re taking me out of context.

If I sell 20 $5 gigs a month, that’s $100, instead say I’m selling 1-4 a month at $700. Not sure what’s less trustworthy about delivering more value for more money. Fiverr makes more money off me than the person selling 20 gigs. What’s less “proven” about that?

The point is that the person selling higher priced/valued gigs – the higher stakes folk with longer delivery times – are getting hit harder than the people selling many low value/price gigs. Frankly, I’ve been in my industry 30 years, not sure why I should have to stoop to competing in the $5 market when I can charge 1 person hundreds of dollars and thrill them with a higher value product.

[jonbaas]

I believe that’s the point, though. Fiverr seeks to reward sellers who sell frequently, and sell consistently. Fiverr wants to promote those sellers to buyers, because those sellers are more trustworthy, they understand and and respect how Fiverr works, and, most of all, they make Fiverr more money. Fiverr exists, first and foremost, to make money; why shouldn’t they promote the proven sellers that do that for them?

You’re taking me out of context.

If I sell 20 $5 gigs a month, that’s $100, instead say I’m selling 1-4 a month at $700. Not sure what’s less trustworthy about delivering more value for more money. Fiverr makes more money off me than the person selling 20 gigs. What’s less “proven” about that?

The point is that the person selling higher priced/valued gigs – the higher stakes folk with longer delivery times – are getting hit harder than the people selling many low value/price gigs. Frankly, I’ve been in my industry 30 years, not sure why I should have to stoop to competing in the $5 market when I can charge 1 person hundreds of dollars and thrill them with a higher value product.

The point is that the person selling higher priced/valued gigs – the higher stakes folk with longer delivery times – are getting hit harder than the people selling many low value/price gigs. Frankly, I’ve been in my industry 30 years, not sure why I should have to stoop to competing in the $5 market when I can charge 1 person hundreds of dollars and thrill them with a higher value product.

Fiverrs rules apply to everyone equally, no matter how high or low-priced your gigs are.

[misscrystal]

Fiverr wants sellers who have higher prices.
But those sellers with higher prices, even if they are high quality dependable sellers, will get fewer orders.

This makes lower volume high priced sellers much more susceptible to getting demoted.
This rewards high volume low priced sellers.

[fastcopywriter]

The point is that the person selling higher priced/valued gigs – the higher stakes folk with longer delivery times – are getting hit harder than the people selling many low value/price gigs. Frankly, I’ve been in my industry 30 years, not sure why I should have to stoop to competing in the $5 market when I can charge 1 person hundreds of dollars and thrill them with a higher value product.

Fiverrs rules apply to everyone equally, no matter how high or low-priced your gigs are.

Frankly, I’ve been in my industry 30 years, not sure why I should have to stoop to competing in the $5 market when I can charge 1 person hundreds of dollars and thrill them with a higher value product.

You don’t have to. It depends on what you sell and how fast you want to get orders. You’re competing on a lot more than just price, credibility is important, portfolio samples, experience, etc. As long as your rating is 4.8 to 5.0, you’ll get order. Lower than that, and the others start to die.

It wasn’t always like that, when the ratings were 0 to 100%, sellers at 90% to 100% could get orders. Got a gig at 96%? No problem. Now, every buyer wants a 5-star seller, it’s ridiculous.

[jonbaas]

Frankly, I’ve been in my industry 30 years, not sure why I should have to stoop to competing in the $5 market when I can charge 1 person hundreds of dollars and thrill them with a higher value product.

You don’t have to. It depends on what you sell and how fast you want to get orders. You’re competing on a lot more than just price, credibility is important, portfolio samples, experience, etc. As long as your rating is 4.8 to 5.0, you’ll get order. Lower than that, and the others start to die.

It wasn’t always like that, when the ratings were 0 to 100%, sellers at 90% to 100% could get orders. Got a gig at 96%? No problem. Now, every buyer wants a 5-star seller, it’s ridiculous.

For the record… you’re not quoting me in your comment. The quoted comments belong to @eclectictllc , not me. Just clarifying this for other forum readers.

[konkamunsif1]

Just wondering if you really need to earn 20k for TRS or do they make exceptions? I am only at my 5k mark I think and I earn 500-1k per month so its gonna take a long time to make it to 20k.

[misscrystal]

Just wondering if you really need to earn 20k for TRS or do they make exceptions? I am only at my 5k mark I think and I earn 500-1k per month so its gonna take a long time to make it to 20k.

I am a top rated seller and it took me over two years to become one. It is possible to become one faster sometimes. Everyone needs to have earned over $20,000 to become one. That is one of the requirements.