English for Native English Speakers

[wuerz123]

One of my buyers sent the text for a flyer.
Subtitle:

Leonor xxxxx kindly request your presence…

I’ve sent the flyer, Subtitle:

Leonor xxxxx kindly requests your presence…

Then I’ve got this:

I’ve been 15 minutes back and forth with messages explaining that I’ve corrected something I consider was a mistake. And they want it back as it was written in the order :thinking:

I’ve asked kindly to check a grammar book or ask whoever else they may trust more than they could trust me. But if I am right… they should add $10 for my time and corrections.
They agreed… lets see…

[offlinehelpers]

Definitely requests! If it were plural, then it would be request.

If it were Leonor asking, it would be ‘Leonor asks’

Definitely worth $100! 🙂

[uncarved]

you’re definitely right. It’s singular requests and plural request. It’s one of the oddities and you clearly won this one

[wuerz123]

The message is from the “man in the middle” who is actually my client and got more confused than his clients when I’ve tried to explain to him that it is wrong what they want to have :thinking:

[misscrystal]

If your buyer is in the U.S. it is possible that this is how they actually talk and either don’t know what is correct or don’t care. Some cultures do talk this way and it is a sub-dialect of American English.

Therefore if they still insist this is what they want then agree to it.
You can explain that it is not correct English the way they have it but you understand that in some
places this is accepted as a regional dialect.

For example:

“final consonants may be deleted (although there is a great deal of variation between speakers in this regard). Most often, /t/ and /d/ are deleted. As with other dialects of English, final /t/ and /k/ may reduce to a glottal stop. Nasal consonants may be lost while nasalization of the vowel is retained (e.g., find may be pronounced [fãː]). More rarely, /s/ and /z/ may also be deleted”

See the following for a reference:

en.wikipedia.org

African-American Vernacular English

African-American Vernacular English (AAVE), known less precisely as Black Vernacular, Black English Vernacular (BEV), Black Vernacular English (BVE), or colloquially Ebonics (a controversial term), is the variety (dialect, ethnolect and sociolect) of English natively spoken by most working- and middle-class African Americans and some Black Canadians, particularly in urban communities. Having its own unique accent, grammar, and vocabulary features, African-American Vernacular English is empl As wi...

The genitive -'s ending may or may not be used.[65] Genitive case is inferrable from adjacency. This is similar to many creoles throughout the Caribbean. Many language forms throughout the world use an unmarked possessive; it may here result from a simplification of grammatical structures. Example: my momma sister (‘my mother’s sister’)

[silkroute]

If your buyer is in the U.S. it is possible that this is how they actually talk and either don’t know what is correct or don’t care. Some cultures do talk this way and it is a sub-dialect of American English.

Therefore if they still insist this is what they want then agree to it.

You can explain that it is not correct English the way they have it but you understand that in some

places this is accepted as a regional dialect.

For example:

“final consonants may be deleted (although there is a great deal of variation between speakers in this regard). Most often, /t/ and /d/ are deleted. As with other dialects of English, final /t/ and /k/ may reduce to a glottal stop. Nasal consonants may be lost while nasalization of the vowel is retained (e.g., find may be pronounced [fãː]). More rarely, /s/ and /z/ may also be deleted”

See the following for a reference:

en.wikipedia.org

African-American Vernacular English

African-American Vernacular English (AAVE), known less precisely as Black Vernacular, Black English Vernacular (BEV), Black Vernacular English (BVE), or colloquially Ebonics (a controversial term), is the variety (dialect, ethnolect and sociolect) of English natively spoken by most working- and middle-class African Americans and some Black Canadians, particularly in urban communities. Having its own unique accent, grammar, and vocabulary features, African-American Vernacular English is empl As wi...

The genitive -'s ending may or may not be used.[65] Genitive case is inferrable from adjacency. This is similar to many creoles throughout the Caribbean. Many language forms throughout the world use an unmarked possessive; it may here result from a simplification of grammatical structures. Example: my momma sister (‘my mother’s sister’)

You is kind…

You is smart…

You is important…

[n4y33m]

You is kind…

You is smart…

You is important…

I hasn’t seen you a while. 😏

[misscrystal]

It definitely sounds like African American Vernacular.

They only hear others speaking this rather than other forms of English and so they don’t know the difference. It is acceptable to use this in that culture so allow it for her. This is not a criticism of this way of speaking or writing as large areas of the US accept this and it is simply a regional dialect.

It is also used in parts of the Caribbean Islands.

[misscrystal]

I want to urge everyone to not feel this is something that can be mocked! This is an accepted way of speaking in parts of the world and it is rude to make fun of it. I hope we can refrain from making fun of this as we have people from all over the world here who actually use this dialect in everyday lives.
This is considered an acceptable form of English for casual communications.

[wuerz123]

If your buyer is in the U.S. it is possible that this is how they actually talk and either don’t know what is correct or don’t care. Some cultures do talk this way and it is a sub-dialect of American English.

Therefore if they still insist this is what they want then agree to it.

You can explain that it is not correct English the way they have it but you understand that in some

places this is accepted as a regional dialect.

For example:

“final consonants may be deleted (although there is a great deal of variation between speakers in this regard). Most often, /t/ and /d/ are deleted. As with other dialects of English, final /t/ and /k/ may reduce to a glottal stop. Nasal consonants may be lost while nasalization of the vowel is retained (e.g., find may be pronounced [fãː]). More rarely, /s/ and /z/ may also be deleted”

See the following for a reference:

en.wikipedia.org

African-American Vernacular English

African-American Vernacular English (AAVE), known less precisely as Black Vernacular, Black English Vernacular (BEV), Black Vernacular English (BVE), or colloquially Ebonics (a controversial term), is the variety (dialect, ethnolect and sociolect) of English natively spoken by most working- and middle-class African Americans and some Black Canadians, particularly in urban communities. Having its own unique accent, grammar, and vocabulary features, African-American Vernacular English is empl As wi...

The genitive -'s ending may or may not be used.[65] Genitive case is inferrable from adjacency. This is similar to many creoles throughout the Caribbean. Many language forms throughout the world use an unmarked possessive; it may here result from a simplification of grammatical structures. Example: my momma sister (‘my mother’s sister’)

This is a good answer since the clients of my client are definitively African Americans.

As with another of my clients who clearly stated that her Logo was purposely written with a “mistake/dialect”, this time I didn’t know it could have been a dialect grammar.

The whole messaging was among me, the “man in the middle” who’s not an African American, and his clients.

My client got confused, he accepted my revision and forwarded the flyer to his clients, who gave him that “strange” message asking to remove the “s” because it was not plural making him even more confused… And there it started because I wanted to explain that the “s” was not because of plural/singular, but because of verb conjugation, which they didn’t know or couldn’t understand.

If they come back and insist with keeping the original text, I will agree, due to the explanation you have given. I just hope that when someone else reads the poster/flyers and invitation cards I’ve created… don’t say to them: “Hey, your designer is stupid, she even writes her works with obvious grammatical errors”

[miiila]

This is pretty specific to presents, is this Leonor in question a ‘real person’ or the name of an ‘entity’?

Somewhere along the line there has been a shift from the early Warner Bros. /Columbia Pictures /Club Spotted Dog present the new blah blah to … presents, which is the usual thing to write nowadays, but maybe whoever devised the text, was inspired by late 60 movie presentations or has a poster with such on their wall or something.

There’s a nice story about Hitchcock insisting that the posters for his new film should read The birds is coming not are coming. 😸

[wuerz123]

This is pretty specific to presents, is this Leonor in question a ‘real person’ or the name of an ‘entity’?

Somewhere along the line there has been a shift from the early Warner Bros. /Columbia Pictures /Club Spotted Dog present the new blah blah to … presents, which is the usual thing to write nowadays, but maybe whoever devised the text, was inspired by late 60 movie presentations or has a poster with such on their wall or something.

There’s a nice story about Hitchcock insisting that the posters for his new film should read The birds is coming not are coming. 😸

That’s also a valid interpretation.

Comes to my mind few clients at the beginning who wanted to have well-cropped photos on their vintage posters/flyers as mine had too sharp edges. I had to explain that the sharp edges were part of the effects, as there were no Photoshops damals, so everything had to be done by hand.

It is always a matter of interpretation, as I usually understand.

The problem I believe (from my side) was that the clients gave me a “false/odd” explanation about the use/not-use of the letter “s”, saying it was not plural…

Leonor is a single person, she’s preparing a birthday party for his boyfriend, definitively she’s not a company 🙂 which (as you’ve said) would also make me think twice before correcting the text.

They still didn’t answer, but I guess from my side I will just deliver two different works for them to choose: one with “request” and another one with “requests”.

[catwriter]

I want to urge everyone to not feel this is something that can be mocked! This is an accepted way of speaking in parts of the world and it is rude to make fun of it. I hope we can refrain from making fun of this as we have people from all over the world here who actually use this dialect in everyday lives.

This is considered an acceptable form of English for casual communications.

This is an accepted way of speaking in parts of the world

If I understood you correctly, it’s accepted for writing, too, not just for speaking?

I’m asking because I know of cases when it’s acceptable to speak in a certain way in casual communication, but writing like that would be considered incorrect. 🙂

[wuerz123]

This is an accepted way of speaking in parts of the world

If I understood you correctly, it’s accepted for writing, too, not just for speaking?

I’m asking because I know of cases when it’s acceptable to speak in a certain way in casual communication, but writing like that would be considered incorrect. 🙂

writing like that would be considered incorrect

There lies my whole problem…

I’ve got many new clients sent by my regulars, they’ve asked “who did that flyer/poster for you” and my clients gave them my link on Fiverr.

I try to correct what I see it’s wrong, but being English not my mother language, a lot could also go through without I even realize.

It just feels strange to deliver something with possible grammar mistakes done by me (and me knowing it could be wrong) :thinking:

It feels somehow as negative publicity for my work…

[idostuff74]

aka the client who insisted I put the space back to where it was !

… ↑

[misscrystal]

This is an accepted way of speaking in parts of the world

If I understood you correctly, it’s accepted for writing, too, not just for speaking?

I’m asking because I know of cases when it’s acceptable to speak in a certain way in casual communication, but writing like that would be considered incorrect. 🙂

If I understood you correctly, it’s accepted for writing, too, not just for speaking?

It’s not accepted for writing but if a client insists then that’s what they should get.

They don’t know the correct way of writing it since their entire lives they have been hearing it a certain way. It would not seem correct to them any other way. It’s not up to sellers to provide an education in grammar in such a case.

[catwriter]

If I understood you correctly, it’s accepted for writing, too, not just for speaking?

It’s not accepted for writing but if a client insists then that’s what they should get.

They don’t know the correct way of writing it since their entire lives they have been hearing it a certain way. It would not seem correct to them any other way. It’s not up to sellers to provide an education in grammar in such a case.

It’s not up to sellers to provide an education in grammar in such a case.

They may wish to make certain it doesn’t show in their portfolio, though.

Thanks for the clarification!

[donnyvoice]

I definitely sympathize with your situation. I get a number of voiceover scripts with English mistakes, and I usually correct them as well as I can. But occasionally a client insists that the incorrect wording be voiced instead. 🙂 Not much you can do in those cases.

[misscrystal]

We literally have two different styles of speaking English in the U.S. Those who use African American English exclusively are not familiar with correct grammar, while others are bi-lingual and know the difference and can speak either way.

[memasan]

The average reading level in America is 3rd grade. Feel free to spread that number across all the ethnic groups.

[deluxwriter]

You did the right thing by identifying the mistake. The buyer can either accept or reject it. I can’t force my opinion on my clients. I simply state the facts and allow them to decide.

[misscrystal]

The average reading level in America is 3rd grade. Feel free to spread that number across all the ethnic groups.

One out of five people in the U.S. is illiterate. I know a successful owner of a tire shop who can’t read or write. He is not a member of an ethnic group.

[memasan]

One out of five people in the U.S. is illiterate. I know a successful owner of a tire shop who can’t read or write. He is not a member of an ethnic group.

You’re funny. EVERYONE is a member of an ethnic group. Oh no, please don’t tell me that’s he’s not human. Well, if he’s not, that’s cool. Next time you see him tell him that I said, QyIghoSDo’ puj pitiful roQ!

[misscrystal]

You’re funny. EVERYONE is a member of an ethnic group. Oh no, please don’t tell me that’s he’s not human. Well, if he’s not, that’s cool. Next time you see him tell him that I said, QyIghoSDo’ puj pitiful roQ!

EVERYONE is a member of an ethnic group.

What ethnic group am I a member of? I didn’t realize European American was an ethnic group.

[offlinehelpers]

EVERYONE is a member of an ethnic group.

What ethnic group am I a member of? I didn’t realize European American was an ethnic group.

Of course it is! I’m a Celt. 🙂